Putting "stay-at-home dads" in perspective

My husband is a stay at home dad and he started a local dad's group after I went back to work. It is small (only 3 dads), but they have welcomed moms as well. Another member of his group tried to join a moms playgroup and was told he couldn't. So sad! My husband has everything in common with these women and he is shut out just because he is a dad? I feel badly for him because it is an isolating job. Other people's support and socialization would help.

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I belong to a "mom's" club in Silicon Valley. It is a very organized, non-profit organization called Las Madres Neighborhood Playgroups. Although there are no dads in my particular playgroup, I know that there have been dads who have been very involved in our organization, holding positions on the board, etc. "Las Madres is a 501 (c) 3 non-profit public benefit organization for the support and education of young children and their caregivers. While most members are mothers, we warmly welcome fathers, grandparents, aunts and nannies to participate." I know what a challenge it can be to be a stay-at-home parent, and I can't imagine turning away any dads who would want to join.

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This is a topic very close to my heart. My husband is also a stay-at-home dad. But here in good old Springfield IL, Nic is not welcome in any of the local "moms" groups. There is quite a good network of stay-at-home mothers organisations, as its a very cheap place to live, yet salaries are good (its the state capital), and many families manage easily on one income. There are at least three major groups in town, yet he has been turned down by all of them, saying that men are not welcome. He is a stay-at-home parent with an 11 month old son, he is an open and supportive father, he is friendly and simply wants a way to meet new people and have some fun activities where Kellan can play with other kids his age. We moved here from Britain, so had no social network established, and being banned from joining the local stay-at-home groups has made this all the more difficult for Nic.

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Our moms group has debated this back and forth and has not let dads in specifically because it is a place for moms to meet, share mom-related issues and of course have playmates for our children. But networking with other moms is very important. Part of the problem is that we organize through Yahoo Groups and that is a big source of our personal interaction and we discuss things there that we prefer to be woman-only (breastfeeding, women's health issues and even occasionally our husbands. lol). Often dads are welcome to join us at park days and such, but it is a group for moms.

I agree that sometimes dads may get the short end of the stick on this, but it is a tough situation all around and I am thrilled to know that there are other groups out there for stay at home dads (and also co-ed ones) but just as there are places for men to congregate and socialize (and there should definately be) there should also be places for women/moms to do the same.

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That's just nonsense. I wouldn't want to be a member of a group that excluded SAHD's. To the dads out there who stay home with their kids--you have my utmost respect!

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On the flip side, I run a weekly playgroup geared towards stay-at-home dads and we've had two women ask if they could join. We talked it over as a group, and not a single dad objected. Once the moms started attending, we actually got a lot out of it. It was great to get a women's perspective on some things, though mostly it didn't seem to matter what gender we were. Most of the conversation still centered on parenting, diapers and potty training, preschool selection, etc. It didn't change the nature of our group to allow in women.

I suppose that it is their perogitive, but I think moms groups that don't allow at-home dads to join are missing out.

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Ross, I tend to agree. I would wish mom's clubs that want "women's time" could schedule both co-ed and mom-only events into their calendar.

The argument against that is that women want "women's time" just as much as men want "men's time". Not sure I agree. I've never felt the need to limit social occasions by gender.

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I am surprised that a group would even think to leave out man because it is a MOMS group. *eyeroll* Some of the best advice and friendships I have had have been with stay at home dads. If he can sit through the breastfeeding discussions (and the breastfeeding), I say...open the meeting to poker week too! In fact, I want to join that group. Anyone know of one? ;-)

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I would not be interested in a "Mom" group that excluded the "Dad." What, are some of them afraid to talk about breastfeeding with a man present? How old are these women? 15? And if friendly man-bashing is a given at the group, why not add a little friendly woman-bashing for contrast? Sheesh. What kind of woman who has been through child-bearing, is still embarassed by any of this stuff? Once you've given birth, don't you remember that more strangers saw and touched your private parts than ever slept with Madonna? Besides, if your group is THAT girly, the man won't stick around. He'll go out and form another group that will be way more interesting and relevant, and you ladies can sip tea and discuss diaper pin colors amongst yourselves.

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I think that it is fine for women and men to have clubs, schools, and teams which are gender exclusive. But I also think that groups that are more inclusive are very valuable, and it must be hard for SAHDs to get the support they need. Hopefully moms groups will be sensitive to that.

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I am a working father, but because I work nights I frequently have the opportunity to participate in my wife's Mom's Club activities. As a result I know more about women's issues such as breastfeeding etc... than I otherwise would. I've also learned to not be so squeemish about them. Don't get me wrong, I think single sex groups are great for some things, but since parenting is supposed to be a co-ed position parenting groups should also be co-ed.

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It boggles my mind that lots of women complain that men don't want to take the time to be SAHD's and about how being the SAHM is such a difficult job. Then, when a man makes an honest attempt at being the SAH parent, he is almost universally excluded merely because he *IS* a man - not because he is being a SAHD, but just because of his gender. These women need to get off their high horses and accept SAHD's for what they are (which is the same that the SAHM's are) - PARENTS!

Michael
SAHD and PROUD OF IT!!

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I'm a SAHD who isn't part of any "group" yet, but I can honestly say I don't really want to join a SAHM group, mostly because I think I'd have more in common with a bunch of dads. And I have to admit I'm fine with moms wanting to keep it women only too. People should be able to hang out with whomever they want to, for whatever ridiculous reason.

That said, I've got much respect for any dude who asks to join a "Moms" group. I think it takes some guts, and if I was a mom that would be the sort of parent I would want to hang out with. I guess the only consolation is that a mom group that says no probably isn't the sort of hen party you'd want to hang out with in the first place.

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When my kids were little I wasn't part of any dads groups, since I didn't know any other sahds, full-time or part-time. I wasn't in any moms groups either. But I will say that the time I was in various situations where I was the only dad, I usually got a pretty negative vibe from the moms (all of whom were sahms), which was kind of weird I thought.

I think having a group that is pretty mixed works because you get people who want to be in a mixed group. But I also think a dads group is a great idea, and wish I'd had one around when I was sahd-ing. And I agree with the above comment that a dad probably doesn't want to be in a mom's group that says no...

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I'd be glad to help any dad looking to start up or join a playgroup group. I understand the mom's point of view and hope that we can help out..

- Peter Bayies
At-Home dad Network
http://www.athomedad.com

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The only input on this subject that is not for men being allowed into coed "MOM's" groups when being asked to is ridiculously hypocritical. If I belonged to a "Dad's" group that left out a mom for any reason whatsoever except for breaking whatever non gender specific rules of orders exist, I would be part of a sexist bunch of idiots...
Single parents of either sex deserve every access to any outlet for support.
If emancipation from traditional roles for parents is not supported by anyone, anywhere, anytime-they don't deserve any respect from anyone, anywhere, anytime...
Any parent group that doesn't believe in supporting both sexes equally deserves to be outed publically!

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I think it's wrong to isolate stay at home dads. In our society it takes a lot for a dad to stay at home instead of work. There are many reasons why it may be better for a dad to stay home. Financially, he may have the job that is easier to give up. Also, there are a lot of men who work in jobs that are not actually a career but a paycheck and their wife may have a job that is a career like teaching or nursing or anything. It would be better for him to give up his job which is just a paycheck than for her to give up her career. Plus, it's good for kids to get to have their dads be such a big part of their lives and not be in daycare all day just so the dad can work even though you spend all that money to pay for daycare. This is not to say that I don't believe in daycare because daycare can also be a wonderful thing for kids too.

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It is hard being a full time father. I live in Florida and we have a pool in my development. All the mother take their kids of there to play and I take my son when I first moved here. I would talk to a few of the women of there and they where nice when they thought I was a Dad just watching my son for the afternoon. Then they talked to my wife and found out I stayed at home, now they won't even talk to us. It is a shame that people have to act like that. So, those women that won't allow men in there group.. shame on you.

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I too have seen negative reactions from SAHMs when I take my daughter to things like storytime at the local library. Im not really sure where they get that attitude either. Im lucky enough to have a full time job and paycheck that lets me work out of my house on project based work, so I have plenty of time to take my daughter out for fun time. It is a shame people are so closed minded. Honestly I wouldnt want my daughter around women who had the kind of attidtude anyway.

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Interesting debate. But no one even mentioned how being excluded might affect the children.

Sorry, son, we can't play with those kids because Daddy's a man. We'll just go to the park by ourselves and continue our secluded (but not chosen) existence....:(

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