Family self defense: is it a good idea?

First and foremost, the castle doctrine stated that in your house (or car) you do not have the duty to retreat before responding with deadly force. This commonlaw principle was in place long before the new law took effect.

Anyway, I am a licensed conceal carry holder and own several guns for protection at home. I understand your concerns with firearms b/c I went through it as well. The key is proper training. With the right courses, any law-abiding person can safely and responsibly own a firearm. Your children included. When children are exposed to them and taught proper safe handling they are far less likely to get injured or worse as a result of an accident.

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Sorry to add another, but I had to respon to message #1. The writer claims that you are more likely to shoot an innocent or a family member than an intruder. This is a flat out lie perpetrated by the gun control crowd. They got the "data" used for this statement by including suicides, domestic violence, and gang shootins inside a home as accidental shootings. The true percentage of accidental shootings is less than 2% of all violent crimes.

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Dennis S. is correct. The control crowd are fanatical and willing to do anything to get one more small step closer to their goal: Total gun confiscation.

I'm a gun owner, as are my parents. My Mom taught me to shoot, my father taught me gun safety. I got my first rifle for Christmas when I was nine years old - an Ithaca Model 49 lever action single shot .22 with an external hammer. This is about the safest rifle I've ever seen.

My father's pistol was in the top drawer of his dresser. It was kept loaded. The pistol has been used to defend the family on three separate occasions. Once in 1958 when Dad confronted a home invasion (yes, they happened back then), again when Dad chased off a group of teenagers that were up to no good at two in the morning, and a third time when I confronted a group of five teenagers that were busy trying to decide if they were going to burglarize our home and beat me bloody or vice verse. No shots were ever fired.

I�ll always own firearms, but the decision to own a firearm and how it is stored is up to the individual. It should NOT be dictated to me by Sarah Brady, Diane Feinstein or Ted Kennedy (who has killed more people with his car than I have with by loaded .45).

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2 conditions have to apply before you purchase a firearm.

1. You need to be completely sure that you are willing to use it. Having a firearm, and not being able to pull the trigger does make it likely that it will be taken away from you. If a mutant ever takes my gun away from me he will have to beat me with it because I will have expended all of the ammo. (And given that I use a .357 magnum, there should be too many willing to charge me after the first 2 or 3 shots.) If you aren't 100% sure you would kill to protect yourself or your kids, get something else. Pepper spray, Taser, etc.

2. You need to take some classes/get some training. People do stupid things with guns all the time. But there are just a few rules that will keep you out the most trouble (there are 10 rules to gun safety, but the first few will keep you from "doing something stupid.")

A. Never point a gun at something you are not willing to shoot. This means always assume every gun is loaded. If you unloaded it 1 minute ago and set it down, when you pick it up you treat it like it loaded. "I didn't think the gun was loaded," is not something you ever want to say.

B. Keep your finger off the trigger before you are ready to shoot. Hollywood always shows people with their finger on the trigger. Your trigger finger should be pointing straight ahead until the moment you decide to fire.

C. Don't shoot at something unless you are sure what it is, and what's behind it. (Just because you see movement isn't reason to shoot. Just because you see someone isn't a reason to shoot. Is that someone you know - kids, spouse, drinking buddy, ... )

You can get training before you purchase your weapon. Some facilities will rent you guns by the hour - expensive, but less expensive than buying a gun you ultimately don't like. Some instructors may even loan you the use of a firearm for training. The NRA has a great network of trainers
http://www.nrahq.org/education/training/basictraining.asp

Personally I don't like the finger print safes. They require electricity - at least battery power. There are quick opening safes that don't rely on batteries. You don't want the safe to be stuck at the time you need it.

Handguns require constant practice. A shotgun is easier to use. Stoeger makes a nice coach gun - double-barreled - in 12 gauge. Pump actions hold more. The Mossberg 590 holds 7 or 8 shells of 12 ga. Even so, I think most people are better served by a handgun and practicing. Practicing is fun and enjoyable and usually not to expensive. (The range I use charges me 11 bucks for all the time I want, plus ammo....)

If you go with handguns, is more than one adult going to be involved? Then everyone needs their own gun. A gun should fit your hand the way a shoe fits your foot.

For home defense I wouldn't use anything smaller than 9mm and would go larger. .357 or .45 or larger. .380 ACP is a good defensive round for concealed carry, but for home defense why are you worried about the size of the gun? Shotguns your choice - go with a 12 gauge. 2.75 inch shells with single or double 0 buckshot.

The left always says "just give them what they want." Faced with a rapist, I will give them what they deserve... a "No!" punctuated with with hot, fast-moving lead.

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I do not own a welder, and I do not know how to use one. If I were to purchace a welder, I would not attempt to weld anything until I had gotten training on how to weld. Someone who does not know how to weld, but attempts to do so, will ruin whatever they are trying to weld in the best case scenario, or set the house on fire or injure themselves in the worst case scenario. Guns, like welders, are pieces of equipment that require training in order to use safely and efficiently. But having gotten training and practice, there are times when a welder, or a gun, is the only tool that will do in some situations. If a steel rafter or support breaks, it must be welded. If someone is psycho enough to break into an occupied dwelling, they must be shot.

To synopsize, a gun is a tool; nothing more, nothing less. Simply owning one does not make you safe. If you know you are not willing or capable to use one, you are better off not owning one. End of part one...

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Own guns. Own lots of them. Teach your kids how to use them. The family that shoots together stays together. :-D

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Begin Part Two...

As I said earlier, sometimes a firearm is the only tool suited for the job at hand. Fortunately, this is a very rare occurrence. A gun is something you don't need very often, but when you do need it, you need it really badly, and you need it RIGHT NOW.

About being "civilized": Civilization exists when people have a mutual agreement with each other that they will act in a civilized manner. That is, they agree that they will respect each other's rights, and not intentionally do harm to each other. This agreement holds for the vast majority of human beings. There is a very small minority of people for whom this agreement does not hold. As long as you never come in contact with this small minority, you are justified in feeling safe. Safety is your responsibility, but it is also your call; it is part of an equasion, or probability.

But bear in mind that your own personal safety and the safety of your family is your responsiblity and decision to make, and no one else's. In the unlikely event that you do come in contact with the uncivilized, government will not always be immediately available to help , and as a previous poster stated, they are under no legal obligation to help. Therefore, a prudent person makes provisions for safety. Some people do this by living in entry-controlled buildings, or "gated communities" with private security guards. Wealthy people hire personal bodyguards. If these are options for you, fine. For many of us, these are not options, so we buy guns and train ourselves and our family members in their safe and effective use.

Another point on "civilization": The maintenance of civilization is the responsibility of its members. If a criminal is stupid or deranged enough to break into my house while my family is home, I will kill him. It isn't about my stuff; screw the stuff. A person who would break into an occupied dwelling is not a normal, rational member of civilization, they are a dangerous criminal. I do not want such a person polluting my planet with their presence. Since it has been proven that we cannot depend on government to keep us safe from such persons, it would be my moral obligation as a member of civilization to remove this person from it. Someone who would not take on this responsibility only emboldens the criminal, and eventually, some innocent member of civilization will be harmed or killed by the criminal. The blood of that person is on the hands of the person who allowed the criminal to continue to operate.

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When I realize that so many people are unable or unwilling to consider protecting themselves and their families, I am amazed. I'm not talking about blasting someone for taking your television or the heirloom jewelry, I mean doing whatever is necessary to prevent death or serious injury at the hands of predatory humans.

Police officers will take incredible risks by driving at high speeds and by approaching uncertain or unknown circumstances to answer an emergency call. However, even if the address/location information is perfect and the officer isn't too far away, don't bet that they can get there before the rape, abduction, maiming, murder, etc., can occur. If the police are willing to take risks to come to your aid, shouldn't you be willing to accept some responsibility for your own protection?

I successfully raised two children in a house where unloaded handguns and long guns (though there was always at least one gun that I could get into action in a few seconds)were present. They were educated and instructed from an early age and there were never any problems involving guns.

There are tired, old statistics from the anti-gun groups about criminals killed versus gun owners or family members killed or injured. Keep in mind that they didn't count criminals wounded or frightened off by armed citizens.
During 30+ years of law enforcement, I "used" my gun numerous times when confronting potentially dangerous persons, but (thankfully) I never needed to fire a shot.

I don't sleep with a gun under the pillow and would have a seriuos problem if I awoke to an intruder already at my beside, but a few seconds alert by the sounds of forced entry will enable me to back up my verbal challenge
with deadly force.

Owning a gun for self-protection isn't for everyone, but that does not mean that the millions who do are blood-thirsty vigilantes who can't wait for a chance to bag a burglar. The risks of owning a gun can be mitigated by training and thoughtful storage.

What will you be reaching for when some maniac crashes through your back door? A phone makes an awfully short, lightweight club.

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One contributor said that she feared that kids could get the guns regardless of trigger locks and such and cited a school shooting as evidence of the ills of such a happening.

Two points about this:

It is exactly the kind of people who perpetrate such crimes that you will NEVER be able to disarm regardless of all of the gun lock, gun safe, gun ban laws in the world. So how do you stop it??? Shoot back. I trust the well being of my children to school teachers and administrators on a daily basis. It would be pretty damn stupid of me to do so but not trust them with the best tools available to protect my children in a scenario like Jonesboro. Has it ever occured to you that these types of mass killings inevitably occur in areas where law abiding citizens are forbidden to be armed? Hmmm.

Also, basically what you are saying is that you are willing to trade the lives of the (average of) 3 or 4 people killed in incidents like those every year for the lives of the 2.5 MILLION people who use firearms to protect themselves from predators every year? Not much of a bargain there.

There have been many good posts about the usefulness of guns and the importance of proper training and properly training kids. I would only add that, I normally keep a loaded .45 ready to go. However, when I have other people's kids over, it gets unloaded and locked up. I know I can trust my kids because I know how they've been trained. I don't know what other kids will do and, so, take no chances. This is a precaution that was uneccesary when I was growing up. My parents knew that all the kids in the rural area of my youth were properly trained in the safe use of firearms. Most of us had our own in our bedrooms with ammo.

For those of you who are fearful of guns, hate guns, despise guns, couldn't kill to protect yourselves or family or any other number of things:

Fine. No one is forcing you to own or use guns. No one is forcing you to defend your family. That is a personal choice. What you do in the privacy of your own home is no concern of mine.

I, on the other hand, refuse to be a sheep. I refuse to surrender responsibility for the well being and safety of my children to others. Therefore, I will be armed. Period. And if a "Katrina" hits here, I and my family will have the means to protect ourselves and our home. Don't come looting here.

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We don't own any guns, but both my husband and I have been trained to use them. Now that we have our son, we are seriously thinking about getting a gun and gunsafe. Yes, I am very concerned about a potential "accident", but I am more concerned about people that may threaten my baby.

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you have a duty to protect you loved ones, don't push it off on someone else. and as usually that cop out about not wanting to so something stupid. if you have no more control then that you shouldn't even be driving, what if another driver pisses you off?

Duane Owen
Certified Firearms Instructor

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My home is mine. My family is very precious to me, and I am willing to go the limit to protect them.

I have been around firearms all of my life. I learned how to handle them at an early age, AFTER learning to respect them. My children knew that they were not something to play with, and to repsect them, treat them as if they were loaded at all times.

Owning firearms comes with enormous resposibility. Training is a must.

So don't come to my home expecting me to bow and let you in. I will light you up with a 500,000 candlepower light so that I can see you clearly, making sure you are not a child or a pet. What happens afterwards is entirely up to you. Calling 911 will come at the end of your visit.

Jack

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Maybe I watch the news too often or watch to many movies, but give me the gun. We won't do it until we take a class and all that, but it's on my to-do list. I never want to be helpless in my own home.

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you should but first read a few books on the subject. Author Massad Ayoob has written several books on the subject. Then take a pistol course. An armed society is a polite society. The police cannot protect you, most of the time they are there just to take the report.

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Seanne Caroline, my beautiful 12-yr. old son was shot and killed by another child who was 14 at the time 2 years ago.
This was an accidentall shooting which lefted 2 families totally destroyed.
To comment on the parents who own guns and feel that in teaching your children gun safety and the dangers of them is good, but I would also like to point out that it is most important to also protect them or any other child with locks or a safe when you are not with them.
Can you be 100% sure that your child, when lefted alone will not touch that gun?
And if so, are you willing to face a tragedy that could kill your own child or have your child live the rest of he/she life with the guilt of killing someone?
These are the words from parents that have lost their own children or had their child kill another.
"I told him/her not to touch it", "He/she knew better", "I can't believe this happened, we taught him/her not to point it at anybody", "We
took him/her to lessons and safety lessons on guns, I don't know why this happened"!
To the people and parents that have commented on the statistics and facts on child deaths.
Search the web a little harder before making a comment about how many actual deaths that guns cause.
We lost 3 children here in Florida just in the month of August, ages 3 through 14. Also in that month there were 10 children with serious injuries.
To the parents who are concerned about your child when at a playmates house; Ask if there is a gun where your child plays. If this bothers the adults that are asked, then you might have lost a friend, but saved your childs life.
To the parents who own guns; Remember what it was like to be a curious child, we all were. Remember what it was like to be a teenager, to "show off", we all did. Remember of all the things your parents told you "not to do", but did anyways.
Now imagine yourself at the age of 8,10,12,14 and killed your sibling or best friend.
When it comes to our own children, we always think that they wouldn't do something until it is too late. The father of the boy who killed my son, never "THOUGHT" since he had TRAINED,TAUGHT AND WARNED his kids, he "THOUGHT" that was enough and lefted his guns fully loaded, unlocked and accessible.
Because of that, I lost my precious son and will have to live the rest of my life knowing that this was preventable!
The father will have to live the rest of his life knowing that his lack of common sense and responsibilty took a childs life and also lefted his own son with guilt for the rest of his young life.
A gun protects no one, when the gun owners are not there.
I am neither pro-gun nor anti-gun. Do I like guns? Well I think you know the answer to that one.
When people used the word "gun control" for people who try to bring safety along with gun ownership amazes me, when it is simple "gun safety"!
Are the people, families and legislators "car control" for bringing safety to automobiles with seat belts?
And last but not least, to the comment on all the other accidents that happen to children.
Yes, many things take the lives of our most precious gift in life, our children.
Gun related child deaths are in fact the 3rd leading cause of deaths here in U.S., 2nd is cancer and 1st is automobile accidents.

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Hey Keed

Teach your kids to shoot. Gun accidents happen because the kids are curious, they've been told to keep away, and they're kids. So take 'em shooting, teach them to respect the piece, and then (in my experience) they'll be cool even if you leave the damn thing on the kitchen table (which is a bad idea and punishable with anything they care to throw at one here in South Africa). Sex education, gun education, what's the difference? The more they know, the less likely they are to experiment and endanger themselves. Kids are people too :-)

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To Retro: Great advice there buddy!!! Because of people like you, is why there are gun accidents in the first place. How do you teach a 3 year old child to shoot? Have you read about these children at that age that have shot their faces off? Teach a 6 year old child? Are you going to leave that gun on the table and expect them to not touch it? I hope that anyone who has their children visit your house to know what an irresponsible gun owner you are! And how much you value the life of a child. I am hoping that you are not a parent, and if is, I feel so sorry for your kids for you are indeed a idiot!!!!!!!!!!!

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I celebrate this law. We need this all over the nation. If you choose not to own and train yourself in the proper use of a firearm, that is your choice. I have taken the time to train and I can tell you that I have been awakened at 3AM by a door opening. I was completely aware and totally in control of my large caliber handgun. With five small children in their beds anyone coming into my home uninvited would be dispatched with no reservation if they did not respond quickly and accurately to my commands. Interestingly enough, my finger was never on the trigger because I did not need to shoot. Anyone that has ever been awakened by this type of noise knows how quickly you become fully aware and cognizant of the situation and fully capable of making life and death decisions to protect your family. By the way, I am an NRA safety instructor. I encourage anyone that decides to own a firearm to train and practice!

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I have a different insight to guns then most mentioned here have. I work for my local sheriffs department. I am a jailer, dispatcher, transport officer - basically what ever they ask of me. I do NOT carry a dept issued weapon on the job but I DO carry a concealed personally owned weapon. I carry EVERY time I leave the confines of my house. Its goes on with my pants and comes off with my pants. Its become a part of daily life.

Facts....dont get your facts from the NRA or the anti-gun crowd. Get them from your paper or local law enforcement (hopefully they are not rabid anti-gun, alot are). These are the facts and figures you need to pay attention to. Im not saying that if your town is violence free you should not have a gun - anything could happen and you never know who is driving thru your town. Im just saying if your town is violence free your "less-likely" to need a gun.

Lets use the town/county I work for for example. In the 25 years I have records for the following has occured.

times law enforcement has fired a weapon to perserve human life - 0

times the public has fired a weapon to perserve human life - 2

OK....so the cops (me and my coworkers) are 0 for 2. The one instance I have the most information for was the most recent. Guy gets disgruntled, looks for ex-girlfriend and find her with another guy. He busts in the house with a loaded revolver, goes to the bedroom and opens fire at the bed. Ex-girlfriend rolls off bed and into open closet and the guy rolls off bed and grabs loaded AR-15 leaned up against the wall next to bed. I gun battle insues. This guys house looked like swiss cheeze. He took one flesh wound with the .38 revolver and the disgruntled bad guy got a couple .223 directly to the heart. He went on pure adrenilane and got to his truck parked out front where he died. Ask your wife if she has ever had an unhappy ex-boyfriend....could happen to anyone. These people were not drug dealers, scum or low-lifes. Every day, hard-working people.

Would this guy have been served well by calling us. Nope, he would have been killed on the way to the phone, 911 was going to do this guy no good. The ONLY reason hes alive is because he had a gun. Even after getting the shots fired call it still took us 15 minutes to get there. He lived out in the country. What kind of violence will wait 15 minutes for the cops to show up - the answer is NONE.

Response times in the city are MUCH better - between 3 and 5 minutes. That response time might keep you safe from alot of crime - ie if your see a guy lurking or working on your front door and you call right away....we most likely will make it there in time. In the case of a subject that intends from the start to kill you - 3 to 5 minutes is an eternity. Calling 911 is most likely not going to help you.

Everyone has a HUGELY inflated image of law enforcement. In 90% of the violent crimes I have worked with we have shown up in enough time to collect evidence and take statments - not in enough time to protect anyone. No heroes here, just realists.

In fact in my depts history we have messed up a few times. We had a situation where I disgruntled husband was holding his wife at gunpoint with a shotgun....we were doing the same with him. Yep, the cops showed up in enough time....we got there in time to talk to him, we talked and in the end he pulled the trigger anyways. The officers got to witness him kill his wife firsthand.

Cops are just humans just like you. You have the same capabilites as we do - were not superhumans. In fact you would be suprised at the amount of cops that have never layed hand on a pistol prior to going to the academy. Its fairly common. All cops are not "gun" people and alot of them only do the required once a year qualifications. Thats right, alot of the people carrying guns that you rely on to protect you shoot a measly once a year. A quick survey of my dept showed that was the case with 7 out of the 10 officers here.

Im not saying EVERYONE needs a gun. Its your decision and use the facts at hand for where you live. Also take into account geography. If I lived in a little town with no violence in the middle of nowhere - I might not carry a gun. If I lived in a small town with no violence on a major highway or interstate - I would carry a gun. But DONT expect the cops to save your day. In my experience, in my area we rarely save anyones day.......just get to do the paperwork after its over. Maybe cops in your town are superheroes.....

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To Aaron, who wants to be cop,that is real one!!! And was turned down-ha-ha!! Bashing police officers, makes it real "plan as day" on that issue. You missed the point and I can see why. I was lost reading what you were writing, so keep your day job! Oh, that's right-a go boy for the sheriff's department. Never mentioned about kids and guns. Any thoughts on that one? Oh, and please don't make this one a novel!

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