I would have to agree that a harmonica in a restraunt is ridiculous. I am surprised that no one said anything.

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agree - a harmonica's a bit much. whatever happened to crayons and some books?

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Just a little over the top. I can handle happy kids, crying kids, even food throwing kids as long as they don't throw it my way. I suppose you could be glad it wasn't a trumpet.

I seriously wonder about some parents.

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And that's the kind of behavior that makes people and establishments anti-kid. Like yesterday's NYT article about the coffee shop. Parents making an effort to control kids, or age appropriate kid behavior is one thing - harmonicas or lying on the floor in the path of people, well, that's something else.

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A harmonica? I hope the kid played it LOUD in the car on the way home.

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Any restaurant featuring 7 kids at one table is fair game for any kid-related noise, in my opinion. Rest assured that yours or the other kids at your table probably mortified somebody else, too. I'm seriously (not trying to be a smartass) surprised that you were able to hear her over all of the kids in your party. I guess when they were all eating it would be somewhat quiet, but I am always amazed when I am with a group of kids at a restaurant how they have some kind of noise synergy that lets them generate as much noise as 2X their actual number! This reminded me a little bit of the time one of our passengers asked a flight attendant to take a rattle away from a baby 2 rows up (she was shaking it gently, and it was not at all obnoxious). The flight attendant said, "No, maam" to her great credit.

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Well the reason we could hear it is that we didn't bring a harmonica with our kids.

They were actually extremely well behaved. Stayed in their seats, didn't yell, talked in normal loud restaurant voices.

Besides a rattle and a harmonica? Hardly comparable.

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Congrats on your kids' behavior! I am not always so lucky, but if ours starts to get loud, I take him outside so my wife and the other patrons can finish their meal in peace. I guess when you said it was a loud, kid appropriate place, I pictured a noisy pizza parlor or something, where I still think a harmonica would be no big deal.
So a harmonica and a rattle aren't the same? Well, duh. My point was that the annoyance you felt at the child' behavior, and her parents for facilitating it, was based on SUBJECTIVE standards of behavior in different environments. Why in God's name wouldn't you just go ask them if they could keep it down if it was such a problem? Maybe you should take your well-behaved gang to quieter places so you won't be annoyed by people who are counting on the child-friendliness of a noisy restaurant? When did people start believing they had a right to live their lives free from occasional and minor annoyance?

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Wow, I'm amazed at the arguments people can make. A harmonica, at a public place which is not a concert venue.

I didn't ask them to put it away because I was hoping they were leaving and didn't want them glaring at me defensively for the rest of my meal the way you (via the written word) are right now.

This is hardly a 'minor' annoyance it's called 'common courtesy', if you have kids or not. I'm as annoyed when people talk all through a movie.

Quiet toys are appropriate for a restaurant. Musical instruments are not and the fact that I just had to type that is what I hate about the general population, frankly.

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Nope, the minute you are too cowardly to go and ask them nicely if they can swap the harmonica for a different toy, thereby giving them the chance to say something like, "Oh my goodness, she plays it so much at home, we don't even hear it anymore! Sorry about that!" it becomes YOUR fault. It's easier to sit there and seeth and blame the rest of the world for your intolerance, but that doesn't mean it's right. Unfortunately, people are going to do rude things near or to you for the rest of your life. No, you don't have to like it, but I hope you can find a way to absorb it less stressfully.

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I believe Melissa DID absorb it less stressfully in the way she chose to take. It sounds more like the argument is heading towards the "for the sake of arguing" aspect. Especially acknowledging that the harmonica was rude. Too defensive, it seems. In fact, it almost sounds as though Zach might have been the parent of the harmonica kid.

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Not cowardly, avoiding an argument. In the same way I don't personally go and ask someone to stop jabbering in the theatre.

Since you think there's nothing wrong with loudly blowing a musical instrument at a restaurant, I'm assuming they have no problem with it either.

I'm not big on public arguments, especially not in front of my kids. *That* would be stressful. Venting is a way of releasing stress.

You make a lot of assumptions about me and in fairness, I've made a lot of assumptions about you based on your opinion on this topic.

Mostly that you are unaware of the concept of common courtesy as is a large portion of the population...and surprise! They're handing that lack of courtesy down to the next generation. One "harmonica" at a time. Lovely.

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Yes, that is a big assumption on your part. And wildly
inaccurate. Of course I am aware of the concept of common courtesy.
I never denied that you were slighted by these people. I just think
that sitting there and attacking the character of someone you don't know,
based on a single action, on a single occasion is silly and cowardly
(but, basically this is what you did to me, too). Actually, I am almost
phobic about consideration for the feelings of others, myself. That
said, I am also aware that people are people, and
sometimes they make mistakes, or have wildly different standards than
I
do. If it causes me angst, I simply try to remedy the situation.
Asking someone nicely can't possible cause an argument, unless you
yourself DECIDE to argue with them, especially if it was so horrific a
racket. I think demonstrating the ability to work with the people around
me and solve problems for the greater good might be a better example
for children. Since you've decided to implicitly impugn my ability to
convey sound values to my children, I offer the following: If you went
up and asked them nicely, and they said, "Bug off, Lady!" would that
be so stressful for your kids? I don't think so. They would simply
learn that some people are insensitive, even when approached reasonably,
and then you would move tables. Or...I still think it would be at least
80/20 that they would have said they were sorry and ceased the
racket... and what a terrific example for your kids in that case!
I still say if you don't give the other person the chance to correct
their faux pas, you don't deserve the right to complain about their
character, instead of just the annoying noise (they're two different
things). I am just a tolerant liberal, who believes in giving people a fair
shake, I guess, but, you know what? I live my life this way and it
works. 99 times out of 100 an amicable arrangment is reached. They're
just people, not ogres. Seriously. At least here they are.
I think we've beaten this to death, huh? We just have fundamentally different outlooks on people which were pointed up by this scenario of yours. You're certainly welcome to the last word. Take care.

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You know, I am just marveling at this whole comment thread. Zach, you are getting really bent out of shape about this post. And maybe because I work with Melissa and I know her tone, I understand the tone of her post more-- and that she is actually going for a persona, and actually trying to drum up a little discussion, also.

We all do this, to some extent, at Blogging Baby. We are trying to build community, but all of us who write for Blogging Baby are attacked by commenters like you DAILY. But not usually more than once in a thread, and not usually so vociferously.

This is a great gig, writing for Blogging Baby. But when we write 5 posts per day about parenting, then, yes, sometimes we take a rather benign situation and make something more of it for the sake of having a post. That may or may not be the case here-- but I don't think Melissa behaved inappropriately by not confronting these people, nor do I think she behaved in a cowardly way by writing about it later

And how nice of you to bait her with your rhetoric at the end of your post. You think the issue has been beaten to death, but she is welcome to the last word? Wow, anything she could possibly say to that would make you the rhetorical winner of that scenario. How nice of you.

A harmonica in a restaurant qualifies as something unique, and she is bringing the question to the table, and also a persona of wondering why in the world people do some of the things they do. That is all. You have made your point, and now you are venturing into personal attack territory. Melissa clearly has the tolerance not to hide your comments or close comments on this post, but I felt I had to speak on her behalf.

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Oh Zach, you really are a [fingers] "charming" [/fingers] fellow.

Really.

No I mean that.

Yours in cowardice....
Melissa

*Does this count as my last word?

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Hey! Stop messing with harmonica - it's cool!
:)

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Oh, for the love of...I read comments like these and just cringe. I think I may have even thrown up a little. Kids require guidance to learn appropriate behavior. Parents in this case? Guilty as hell. Playing a harmonica in a closed-in public area is not, as far as I can recall, an inalienable right. Nor is it illegal. But, come ON. Use. Some. Common. Sense. Ugh. Zach - are you that guy who constantly brings his child to the movie I paid ten dollars to see, the one with the child who screams every five minutes in direct competition with the Dolby surround?

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Wow, someone thinks you need to confront strangers (strangers carry weapons nowadays - heck, our Starbucks baristas have told us that customers have thrown, yes THROWN, hot drinks back at them when they weren't perfect) about inappropriate behavior in a restaurant. A harmonica is never appropriate for a restaurant. Like someone else said, whatever happened to crayons? Crayons are supposed to be the ultimate kiddie shut up tool at restaurants. I know it always worked for me and my brothers when we were young.

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OMG, why is this even up for disucssion? Children speaking in loud childish voices, laughing, etc. = normal, and to be expected any place where children are welcome. Harmonica or other musical instrument in a restaurant = stupid and thoughtless.

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When I first read this on your site Melissa I gulped. Because I thought after all this time I got caught.

This happened to me. Yes - a harmonica. After 15 minutes of a kid breathing in and out as hard as he could on a harmonica. It was a family restaurant. SO WHAT!?! I finally went over to the family who were not paying any attention to the kid (were they deaf?) and asked very firmly, "Would you PLEASE take that away from him? He is bothering everyone in the entire restaurant." They looked confused, but they did take it away. The really seemed baffled. Although I am sure they thought I was really evil when their kid was running at full speed and screaming (yes, screaming, for the whole joy of screaming...INSIDE) in the lobby area waiting to pay and as I turned around and said, "I wish someone would get control of that kid!"... there was his dad... I didn't realize it was the same brat. Yes BRAT Mr. Zach. Aren't the parents responsible for teaching their kids how to act in public and respect other people? How else will they learn? When is the appropriate time to teach your children how to behave in public? When they are teenagers? Of course I know it all... I'm not a parent. ::Steeling myself for attack::

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