Against babies in bars: the Brooklyn "Stroller Manifesto"

by J.D. Griffioen (Subscribe to J.D. Griffioen's posts) Dec 27th 2005 8:34AM

After a full weekend of dealing with the in-laws, last night I told my wife I needed a beer. Not a bottle from the fridge, but a real beer: a pint pulled from a tap. It was 5:00 p.m. and we walked to the Irish bar down the street where we used to go before we had a baby in our lives. Because it was so early on a Monday night, the place was empty, but the second we walked in the bartender gruffly sputtered at us, "sorry, no babbys allowed." I looked at Paddy McIrishman bartender and asked, "Why not? It's five o'clock?" He responded: "It's the law."

My wife and I used to live in Ireland. We know that the Irish allow kids in the pub before it gets too late. It's the same in other countries, too. In California, there's no smoking in the bars, and I'm pretty sure it's not against the law to have a baby in a bar that early. My neighborhood is certainly in no danger of becoming the next Park Slope, Brooklyn's tony parenting paradise where bars are overrun with strollers at night. One modern Martin Luther in Brooklyn even created an anti-baby "Stroller Manifesto," which he tacked to the doors of baby-infested bars, shaking his fist in frustration. The manifesto reads:

"Listen, if you're a parent now, your child doesn't have to be the center of everyone else's universe too. Get a baby sitter if you want to go out to a bar, or buy a bottle of wine and invite your friends over, just stop imposing your lifestyle on the rest of us in our sanctuary of choice. You made the decision to have a child and now, like a responsible adult and parent, you have to change your lifestyle as well."

Wow, I've clearly been oblivious to this whole scene. You mean I didn't have to change my lifestyle? I didn't have to stop hitting the bars when the baby was born? Frankly, I kind of agree with this guy. If I was a single 25-year-old, I wouldn't want screaming kids in the bars I was cruising either (that said, I'd like to write a manifesto against lame-ass 38-year-olds who hang out in bars hitting on 25-year-olds; ten words: You're old, and lame. Deal with it some other way.) But when it's five o'clock and the only patron in the bar is some Irish Granny passed-out next to a gin and tonic, I think my wife and I ought to be able to step out and enjoy a Guinness. I don't want to get into the whole babysitting thing, we don't know anyone and babysitting ain't what it used to be when my sister earned $2.00 an hour and was glad to get it. You have to provide dental insurance to your babysitter nowadays, I swear. I just wanted a fresh-pulled pint in a real bar, was that so much to ask? Just like with an empty movie theater, shouldn't it be okay to bring a baby into an empty bar?

Oh well, at least our fridge is stocked.

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Comments (17)

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Leah 12-27-2005 @ 9:45AM

commonwealth on 5th ave at 12th street in the slope wouldn't have kicked you out...

MelissaS 12-27-2005 @ 10:31AM

Most of the bars around here have a time frame where kids are or are not allowed in. And there are certain hours of the day I wouldn't bring my kids to the bar and certain bars I wouldn't take my kids.

But God. We're supposed to be trapped in the house? As long as your child is able to sit in a restaurant or bar for an hour, why not?

Did you bring a harmonica or something?

Uncle Roger 12-27-2005 @ 11:38AM

I thought (IANAL) that the important criteria was whether or not the bar/pub served food? If it was strictly a bar (no food), then I would not be surprised to learn (and actually thought it was the case) that no one under 21 was allowed, regardless of potty-training status. If, however, the place served food, then anyone was okay. But I might be wrong.

That said, you might try Tommy's Joynt on Van Ness, or, perhaps, the Edinburgh Pub on Geary (iirc) just off Van Ness. I don't know what neighborhood you're in, but their may be similar places within walking distance that have Anchor on tap. (Or Guinness, if you want to go that route.)

Mamacita 12-27-2005 @ 12:35PM

I'm a liberal woman, but I will have to say that I do not think a child belongs in a bar under any circumstances. What are parents THINKING???? To bring a child into a BAR? Bars are for adults, and no one under 21 should be allowed, period. The 'manifesto' is right on, this time. Sorry, bar-loving-parents-who-bring-the-kids-along-wherever-they-go, but no. No children in the pubs. And as long as I'm going to be hated anyway, don't bring your baby or toddler to the movies, either. Yes, we know that your children are the most awesome in the universe, of course they are. Mine were, too, but we NEVER took them anyplace where the odds of them disturbing someone were high. And if we did, and they did, we removed them immediately. I think sometimes that parents forget that in this world, there are places for children, and places for adults, and most of the time they overlap; but occasionally they do not, and this keeps us all sane, kids included. Besides which, as much as I love a good pub, even the best pub is still a bar, and little children do not belong in a bar. So parents, please, put your personal wants on hold for a while; that's part of what being grown up and having children means, you know. And those of you who know me know that I adore well-behaved children in all circumstances. I just do not believe that a bar is an appropriate place for them.

Mamacita 12-27-2005 @ 12:38PM

P.S. If the bar has a family room, that's a restaurant and that's different, although the behavior rules should still apply. But in the bar itself, absolutely and with no exceptions, no.

Uncle Roger 12-27-2005 @ 12:54PM

Different cultures do things differently... in the british isles (as I understand it -- I've never been there, just hung out with an awful lot of expats), the local pub is very much a family establishment.

In this country (The good ol' US of A), there are some subcultures where the local bar is a dive where you wouldn't want to take your worst enemy, let alone your kids. In that case, I agree -- don't bring the kids. In other segments of our society (and yes, it is, in large part, defined by wealth) the local bar is a perfectly acceptable place to which to expose your children.

While I don't get to hang out in bars much anymore, there are a lot that I used to hang out in that I wouldn't take most people I know, and a few where I'd be happy to take my kids. Likewise, there are restaurants, theatres, and other establishments I wouldn't take my kids, but that doesn't mean I'll ban my kids from all restaurants, theatres, and so on.

I will admit that our totally screwed up culture here means that there are a lot more bars unsuitable for decent folk than the opposite, but that's a function of our own idiotic views on such things rather than some inherent problem with a house of spirits.

Dutch 12-27-2005 @ 2:00PM

Rog, if you count "Irish breakfasts" and "bangers and mash" as food, I would say this pub also serves in the capacity of a restaurant. It was just that Paddy McStinkeye didn't want a baby in his pub, that's all. Rude, but we didn't want to stick around where we weren't wanted. As I said, I lived in rural Ireland for awhile (in a town cruelly named Lisdoonvarna) and you would see families in the pubs until 9:00 or so, chatting, eating, and listening to traditional music. It was no big deal.

And the attitude that babies NEVER belong in bars, in my opinion, just perpetuates the idea that bars are "bad" places where "bad people" go to be "bad" i.e. that drinking itself is bad, which is the stupid puritanical attitude towards drinking that the U.S. has that leads to many high schoolers binge drinking in stupid places and having unhealthy relationships with alcohol over the course of their lives.

Who would have thought that having a baby would make me feel 19 again when it comes to drinking, i.e. being turned down at bars and having to drink in secret and never getting the taste of a fresh pulled pint. mamacita, what is wrong with bringing an infant-in-arms into an empty, smoke-free bar well before the normal bar hours begin so the parents can escape their apartment and enjoy a beer? I don't understand.

charlene 12-27-2005 @ 2:13PM

So there is indeed whole 5pm bar/no kids law in California. We wanted to take Nolan to a kids benefit in SF at at club where some bands were performing. A kids band even played, but no children were allowed because of this law. Even the children's band had to leave immediately after they performed, even though the event was to raise money for their music foundation. So lame for this particular situation. But I can understand why they have it.

posthipchick 12-27-2005 @ 2:35PM

I was once kicked out of an airport bar with my 3-month old niece and her parents. I agree, totally ridiculous.

Dutch 12-27-2005 @ 2:57PM

Charlene, have you seen the law? I couldn't find any. I don't think there is one, what we probably have is just overzealous bar owners. How can some bars have "all-ages" nights if there were such a law, i.e. Bottom of the Hill, where they serve no food and serve tons of alcohol?

sarah gilbert 12-27-2005 @ 3:24PM

here in Oregon each bar/restaurant makes its own rules and the liquor people approve it - i.e. no minors ever, minors until 6 p.m., minors until 10 p.m. - and most of my fave joints allow minors "for the purposes of eating" until about 10. sure, it makes sense that i shouldn't have my babies out so late, and that the crowd at that point isn't exactly baby-friendly.

but the real reason the liquor commission doesn't want children in bars is so they don't sneak sips out of their parents' drinks, thereby violating The Rules. this is ridiculous on so many points - as Dutch pointed out, making exposure to alcohol so off-limits only increases the allure and leads to binge drinking - plus, none of us are sneaking sips to our six-month-olds; plus, if we are (to our 10-year-olds, or 16-year-olds), isn't it our business and not that of the alcohol board?

you'd think that rules so clearly puritanical would have disappeared with 1950s, wouldn't you? sure, i'm never, ever going to want to bring my baby (or myself, for that matter) to the "dirty bars" in my neighborhood that serve only a cloud of stale cigarette smoke with a side of cheap beer. but i feel as if i should be able to take my sleeping baby in his sling to the hip brunch spot that serves a mean bloody mary at 11 a.m. on a saturday. you know?

Ann Adams 12-27-2005 @ 6:34PM

I'm not a lawyer - maybe a lawyer should check the code. The general rule, as I understand it, it that a place that serves real food is a restaurant; anything else (as for example pretzels and hardboiled eggs) is a bar. California used to be okay with kids at a table even if the bar is in the same room.

Don't actual bars usually have a sign on the door saying no one under 21 allowed?

I'm not joining the debate. It depends on the place, the circumstances, state law, and indeed sometimes the parents. I can see both sides too well to argue a particular viewpoint.

Martin Olson 12-27-2005 @ 7:08PM

Actually as weird as it sounds, your good friend Paddy may have been right about the whole law thing. Maybe. A few years back this bar in Carroll Gardens named Sparky's (RIP) was for better or for worse kind of my second living room, to the point where my then girlfriend, upstairs neighbors and occasionally myself tended bar there. And a couple of times we were put in the lousy situation of turning away couples with babies because the owner told us there was some kind of legal (I believe related to different types of insurance) reason we had to. Now granted he was Irish as well but also happened to be a real sweet guy with kids of his own and the place was hardly the kind of establishment that would be rendered in any way "less cool" by the presence of a few babies.

Anyway, assuming there isn't a giant Irish Bartender Conspriacy Against Babies, I think the guy might not have been entirely talking crap. I do wish I remembered what the actual law was though...

Helpful, I know.

tahliah Y. fuller 12-30-2005 @ 3:33AM

I'm a mom and I totally agree with the "stroller Manifesto". Children do not belong in bars anymore than they belong in an adult-themed movie. Another pet peeve of mine. Young parents need to know or be reminded that their adoring child is not the center of the universe and yes, sometimes being a parent means you must make small sacrifices like hiring a baby sitter or just having to stay home. A whining irritable or ill mannered child should not ruin an otherwise adult atmosphere.