Woman asked to stop breastfeeding at YMCA

Someone said, "This is what is known as a slippery slope argument, a common logical fallacy..... So long as we allow abortion in the first trimester, soon we'll allow abortion until the date of birth, and then we'll allow outright INFANTICIDE!"

Where is the fallacy in this one? This is exactly what has happened.

I understand that slippery slope is not good logic, but this particular example was a pretty bad example of that!

Sandy

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Come on women we know you can do something we can't, so do you have to push it into our faces. I don't stand and pee in front of you do I no. And if I happen to look for a sec you give us this death look, if you diden't want us to stair them maybe you should take it somewhere where you wont anger men and yes other women. And come to think of it, why do you subject your child to danger. There are people out there men and women who would like to harm you and your child, again why do you subject your child to danger. Im not telling you not to do it, just use some common sence. When I was younger and my wife brest feed our children we did it so that no one would feel uncomfortable, we wern't trying to show off, and to let you know that was her idea.

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But, Fuks said, it is too much trouble to pack up her children and head back to the locker room when Ansley gets hungry. Her primary goal while swimming is to let Maxwell get his ya-yas out, and constant interruptions to feed his sister don't help, she said.

She needs to shut up and get over it

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I'm glad it's protected here in NC. I was once told to quit nursing in the lobby at my community college, CVCC, but I stood my ground, told him it was legal, and after speaking to the man, went out and printed a copy of the law which I carried with me thereafter in the diaperbag.

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Well, at least the "no food or drink" is consistently applied to breastfeeding Moms and the rest of the people in attendance. The comment about it being a distraction reminds me of the legislator last year (I can't remember what state it was) who said that breastfeeding in public shouldn't be allowed because it created a public safety concern because breastfeeding women might leak on the floor and someone might slip on the spilled milk. All the breastfeeding Moms I know said if they weren't allowed to breastfeed there would be a much bigger concern about leaking milk. I would think a shrieking infant would be a much bigger distraction that a Mom discreetly breastfeeding.

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Although I appreciate that this is a serious subject for women in this situation, I have to say that "No food or drink allowed in the pool area, no exceptions" is actually a pretty funny answer.

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What is breastmilk if it's not food and drink? The article staes that "The YMCA does allow breast-feeding in other areas where parents and children are permitted to be together, including the locker rooms and lobby." So I think this may be a case of someone looking for a fight. The lifeguards got distracted? Oh well, they're probably teenagers. However the no food and drink rule is valid and should be upheld.

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But why is the no food and drink rule there in the first place, Meg? Presumably because of either health or cleanliness concerns - they don't want people leaving crumbs, trash, getting stuff in the pool, etc. So unless this woman planned on spraying the stuff all over the place, I can't see that it was really all that relevant.



It's about as valid as catching somebody popping a breath mint. If you walk in the door chewing gum do you have to spit it out? If it's truly no exceptions I would expect both of those to be aggressively pursued as well.

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Duane, if moms can breastfeed by the pool then they should be allowed to bottlefeed. And if that woman can feed her infant, surely no one would mine if I gave my toddler some crackers. My five year old is hungry watching his brothers swim practice, I'll just let him have a sandwich. Maybe I'll crack open my soda too. No one will care right?

Rules regarding health, safety and sanitation are put in place for a purpose and everyone wants to be the exception to some rule or another. If the mother can breastfeed elsewhere in the building and no food or drink is allowed at the pool then its clear to me. The mother is not allowed to breastfeed by the pool and thats that. Its not inhumane, rude or discriminatory. Its just a friggin rule.

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Wow, meg, you completely ignored my response. Crackers? A sandwich and a soda? All things that would clearly go under "health and sanitation" and thus are logical to exclude. But unless you can explain how a breastfeeding mother is either a health or sanitation issue, unless the woman is going for distance and accuracy, then I still say it's a silly argument to make.



The problem with "she's allowed in other parts of the building" is that her other kid was in the pool. So you'd be asking her to leave one child in order to feed the other. I wouldn't expect my wife to do that, either.

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Just to make a few comments on this from both sides (I've been a life guard).



The no food / drink in the pool area is both a health safety issue, and a "if you eat then swim, chances are it may come up", and that's not fun to deal with. The pool parties are always a "swim first, then eat" (or were when I was guarding). Yes it also is a distraction for the guards, since we try to prevent any "exposure".



That being all said, my wife breast feeds our son before swimming classes, frequently by the side of the pool at our YMCA. Nobody's stopped her, or told her to leave, or do it elsewhere. She's quite concientious to make sure that she's using a towel to cover up, etc. Granted this is with a 8 month old, not a 1 or 2 yr old... I'm not sure where the line would be drawn.



We have classes in the pool with both our kids, and have brought snacks into the pool area, but we're carefull to not get them near the pool proper.



About the article, it sounds like she was in the "observation" area, in our YMCA, that's just an area seperated by a plexi-glass "fence"... There's kids nursing and eating in that spot a lot of the time... the area just outside has the tables and cafeteria area. I could understand that they would object if she was in the water and nursing, but on the side, or in the observation area.... I know it's a fine grey line. It may also be a case of one or two people going too far.

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I think you completely missed my point Duane.

The point is that the rule is a rule and an exception for one will invariable lead to an exception for another. If her elder son is in a swimming lesson then the kid is supervised. It's still not discriminatory, wrong, illeagal or inhumane to ask the mom to use the locker room or lobby to feed her child. It's actually fair! But fair isn't good enough nowadays. Everyone needs to be accommadated for every single issue/feeling/habit and this has a larger contextual problem in our society than most people realize.

If food and drink aren't allowed poolside then breastFEEDING shouldn't be allowed. Why is this so difficult to understand?

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I just don't understand what America's fascination is with BOOBS!!! Do you realize that people in Europe walk around and sunbathe topless at beaches. PUBLIC beaches. I'm sure they laugh and pity our obsession with breasts and nipples, etc.



It's BREASTFEEDING. It's natural. It's beautiful.



We are living in such a backward and quasi conservative society and are heading in the wrong direction!

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I had to laugh at the report of the Ann Arbor woman, Kelly Fuks, who was not allowed to breastfeed her baby at the YMCA because she was told it's a distraction to the lifeguards.



I would personally feel very unsafe if the lifeguards at my pool were so easily distracted, especially considering the number of scantily clad young females around. Perhaps the Y should also ban swimwear which does not modestly cover the female form from neck to toes? Oh, wait! That would be a burkha!



The Y says it is a health issue because it violates a "no food and drink'' rule in the pool area. Does this mean that she needs to check her breasts in the locker room?



Diane Carr, senior programs director at the Y, is quoted as saying,

" Soggy food in the pool area is unsanitary, especially if it gets in the pool or if a child vomits after eating in the pool. People bringing drinks might break glass bottles, which would require draining the pool. "



Ms Carr might want to note that breasts do not get soggy. They may occasionally leak milk, but OSHA considers human milk to be safe, unlike the urine and other noxious substances that is often found in pools. Nor are breasts made of glass, so there is no risk of people's feet being cut by sharp breast shards. Moreover, children vomit for many reasons and nobody can predetermine when they may do so. In fact, babies who are not breastfed are much more likely to become sick and vomit, since they are not protected by the immunity factors in their mothers' milk.



I find it fascinating that the normal - breastfeeding - is banned, while the artificial - the bottle feeding of non-human milk to human babies - is allowed. Definately something to think about!

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I'm not an expert, but I've been in pools where the chlorine in the air, not to mention in the water, is overpowering. I'd be concerned with the chlorine contaminating the milk during the feeding, but then again, we're hyper careful with our little guy.

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Meg, when was the last time you ate in the locker room? The toilets in the Y's locker room are pretty clean, but I still wouldn't want to have dinner there. Yes, I do think the rule should be changed for a baby in arms to nurse beside the pool.



If a restaurant declares no outside food or drink does that mean a breastfeeding or bottlefeeding baby isn't allowed to eat if the mother is dining there?



The point is it is a bad rule. Plenty of pools (both public and private) around the country and the world operate without any problems while allowing food, drinks, and breastfeeding.

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Gotta say, I totally agree with Meg here and I'm surprised that more people aren't seeing her point.



One of the most common arguments for the right to breastfeed in public is "you'd have no problem with mom feeding by bottle here, why should you care if I nurse?"



Well guess what...mom's can't feed by bottles there. As a lactivist, I'm ready to fight the fight whenever and wherever to make sure a woman's right to nurse her child is protected, but I in no way think that women earn "special" rights just becaues they nurse. If Ms. Fuks was bottle feeding, she would have had to leave the area to give her child a bottle, why should she get to stay just because she nurses?



On an even more important note, I'm a little disappointed that only the mother's side is being picked up on the "distraction" front. What the director of the Y actually said was that a distraction was created because they had to deal with someone breaking the rules. Not that it was a distraction that she was nursing. That makes a WORLD of difference.



Finally, the last quote from the article in the Ann Arbor news makes the thing pretty clear to me. Ms. Fuks simply states that she didn't want to bother leaving the area to feed her child because it was an inconvenience. Guess what...having children sometimes means being inconvenienced. It's life.



This story is not about not being able to nurse in public. It's about not being able to feed or eat in a certain location. Just because it happens to involve breastfeeding doesn't make it lactivism worthy.

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Jennifer said:

> What the director of the Y actually said was that a distraction was created because they had to deal with someone breaking the rules. Not that it was a distraction that she was nursing. That makes a WORLD of difference.<



Here is the quote from the original article by Tracy Davis in the Ann Arbor News on Wednesday, January 11, 2006, which can be found online at:

http://www.mlive.com/news/aanews/index.ssf?/base/news-16/1136994078120310.xml&coll=2&thispage=1



> An Ann Arbor woman is upset that the YMCA will not allow her to breast-feed her baby in the swimming pool area.

Kelly Fuks said she was told it's a distraction to the lifeguards. <



'nuff said!

Granny

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MelissaS said "I'm not convinced she would have been asked to leave if she had been bottle feeding since the 'No food or drink' reason was given after the fact."



Why wouldn't you be convinced? They have a long stated policy that no food or drink is allowed in that area. Do you really think that they ignore that policy for formula feeding moms? There's no evidence to back that up.



Granny, that same article that you quote includes these lines on the second page:



"Asked about the distraction rationale, she said that anything happening in the pool area that breaks rules is a distraction to lifeguards because they have to respond and deal with it."



and



"Carr said the issue has come up before, including at the old building. She said the "no food and drink'' rule came at the recommendation of the county health inspector and is a long-standing regulation."



Again, you need to consider this at the end of the article:



"The Y does allow breast-feeding in other areas where parents and children are permitted to be together, such as the family locker rooms or the lobby waiting area.



But, Fuks said, it is too much trouble to pack up her children and head back to the locker room when Ansley gets hungry."



Too much trouble... I understand that children want to play...but I still do not buy for a second the idea that you cannot leave to feed your child. Why would you even dream that you would have to leave your 3-year old behind? I don't want to get into parenting arguments here, but do you not have enough authority over your children to tell your 3-year old that they need to leave the pool while their little sibling eats? This is what you'd have to do if you were bottle feeding. It's part of life.



I really see this as much ado about nothing. Again, unless the Y has a history of allowing formula feeding moms to break their "no food" rule, I just don't see how women can get up in arms about this. She wasn't asked to leave the Y, she was asked not to nurse in a specific area.



Pitching fits just to pitch fits doesn't do our movement any good. Save the fights for when there's something to fight over.



That said, if it comes to light that moms can bottle feed in that area and that the rule isn't enforced for them, then I'll be the first one to retract everything I've said and to launch my own crusade about this.

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