I agree with your points in general, but let make one comment about suspecting the teachers... A kid who swipes a teacher's ipod will get a suspension, probably an F, maybe a little time in a kid's jail if they get caught. Chances are, if they do nothing else wrong, their record will be sealed and no one will ever know, once they leave the school. If it's not the first or last offense, swiping an ipod will probably be a minor point in their criminal career. Either way, not a big deal compared to a $200+ item.

A teacher, on the other hand, would face the loss of not only his job but his entire career (one which he's put a lot of time and effort into just to get hired) as well as possible jail time (real jail, not a kiddie jail) and public humiliation. That's a lot to risk for a measely $200 ipod.

I have a coworker who runs the registration for a convention. On the weekend of the con, he ends up with tens of thousands of dollars in cash that belongs to the convention. Would he ever steal it? No. It's not enough for him to make a getaway and live on for the rest of his life. Because he would be throwing his life away if he took it. So there is no temptation there.

On the other hand (the second part of his story) he has a friend who was a cop and later a security guard. He was once in a bank watching the transfer of tens of millions of dollars worth of bearer bonds from one party to another. He realized that he was the only one in the room with a gun, and it would be a trivial matter to take the bonds and disappear. He didn't do it, of course. I'm not so sure I'm that honest. That's a lot different, however, from a $200 ipod.

So the likelyhood that it was a teacher is very small. Mind you, that doesn't mean it wasn't -- there are a lot of really stupid people out there and some of them are even educators (http://www.bloggingbaby.com/2005/09/30/intelligent-design-gloves-are-off-in-pennsylvania-court-case/).
It's just a lot less likely because of the high risk-to-reward ratio.

Of course, none of that excuses illegal searches. On the other hand, don't most schools have a no-ipod/game/etc. policy these days?

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Students may (or may not) have the same rights as adults. If an iPod disppears from a classroom, then anyone who was in that classroom is a suspect. That's called "resonable suspicion." As long as each student was patted down by a same sex teacher/administrator, I don't see a problem.

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I agree with Jason. This is not unreasonable. To answer the last question, If a police offer was giving a talk to an adult group and a part of his/her equipment dissapered it would be a reasonable search.

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Why would she bring it to class if she's around students she could suspect of taking the iPod? Seems like a dumb thing to do on the teachers part. It is an expensive and valuable thing that shouldn't be displayed for all to see all the time. You never know what will happen in public places when you leave stuff around. wouldn't have happened if she simply hid it or didn't bring it at all.

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Well, did any of the students who got patted down actually have the ipod?

I'm in agreement with Jason.

(for Jeff)And, should all teachers just assume that at least one kid is bad and will steal? Or, should that teacher have faith and trust that her students are loyal and trustworthy and wouldn't steal? Which angle would make her the better teacher? At any rate, she should've at least kept it out of sight or put it away when she had to depart the room. Or, maybe she did, and, in that case she should've locked it up, right?

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It was an iPod for God's sake...of course a patdown was appropriate! :D

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I don't like it but the schools in most states can set their own rules which usually have nothing to do with "rights". Kids don't have the same "rights" as adults in the justice system either.

And, while the vast majority of teachers are decent, honest and hardworking, some are not. Teachers have been guilty of far worse things than swiping an ipod.

I have never been fond of blaming the victim. We live in an age where locked doors and locked desks are a necessity but I hate the idea that everything has to be nailed down or it's all our fault.

Well, if it hadn't been out in the open it wouldn't have been stolen? If the perpetrator weren't a thief, it wouldn't have been stolen. Let's put the blame where it belongs.

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I remember when a kid's calculator was stolen in high school, and they started searching everyone one by one until the kid that took it finally gave it up right before the search got to him. They also used to make us get up and leave the room, class at a time, while drug dogs came in and sniffed our backpacks. Students have little rights in high school, so I'd be suprised if they didnt search the students. iPods are expensive! And you KNOW a teacher isnt going to let that one slide.

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Students do not have a right or expectation of privacy, according the SCOTUS, thus the search was not illegal. A student can be searched at any given time while on school grounds. Bags, lockers, pockets, etc. are open to search if a crime has been or has been suspected of being committed on school grounds or at a school sponsored event.

Just FYI, from a teacher.

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If there's plenty of reason to suspect a kid then the school has every right to do this. Unless people want to put cops on the beat at every school then these institutions must be permitted to keep law and order themselves, which includes handling incidents of theft.

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From our local paper today. Students may have a few rights remaining after all. Strip searches are illegal in California.

Now someone please let the teachers know.

http://www.mercedsunstar.com/local/story/11709744p-12434809c.html

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Comment #11 - the link didn't work. Sorry. This one does or did when I checked it. Trying again.

http://tinyurl.com/bd937

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I read most of the comments. I'm going to say this as nice as possible and understand that I am making assumptions based on previous writings that I have read where you badger the public school system. I continue to read entries that you write even though I get teeth-gritting angry everytime you mention public schools. I've commented before but you never seem to feel the need to respond. I am not being rude here, just simply stating some facts.

And the facts are.....the law allows schools to have a pat down policy and even strip searches and locker searches that have nothing to do with law enforcement officers coming into the building with a warrant. The law allows the school to do this, thus none of those children had their rights infringed upon. The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough info here to say why the students were the ones suspected but it is very possible that this teacher had the ipod, turned her back to do some bulliten board work, or stepped out into the hall to talk to a student and knew without a doubt that no other adult had been in the room and thus there was no one to blame but the students. Obviously all that info wasn't in what you wrote and we don't know.

Basically, as I said before, the law allows schools to do such things as search students and their possessions and if you (generally you) do not like it, then you can remove your children (which is what you have done as I know you homeschool your children). And, the attitude that you have with NEVER finding anything positive with public schools is sickening. You act as if your (your family) way is the only way to proper educate your children without having their rights infringed upon.

As a teacher, it is obvious that you have never spent one day in a public school system as an adult.
And, one day generally won't do it. You my friend need to substitute for about 3 months and then decide if you think all the children in the world are being mistreated and having their rights bashed simply because they attend public schools. I've taught in schools where the adults don't even carry handbags or briefcases in the building because it is common place for items to "walk" off. And, you guessed it, not one adult in the building is interested in my $9.00 purse from walmart that holds my kleenex, social security card and driver's license. But, b/c I don't won't to have to go through the hassle of replacing those things, I don't take my purse in the building. Now, a seemingly mischief child (student) might take those things simply as a gag or because he/she hopes to find some cash.

See, as much as I would like to belive that my own children are adorable and perfect, never underestimate what your child might do in a situation when you aren't there to guide them. And, you can argue that you are teaching morals and the such by homeschool and that is what the students in public schools are missing, but the fact of the matter is, educated men and women that graduate from Harvard are sometimes susceptible to make a bad decision once and awhile, girls and boys educated in the most expensive private schools, public schools or even in your home are all capable of making a bad judgment.

And, in the event that a child makes a bad move, the school has to deal with the situation the best way they know how. And, that is to search and seize person, property and such. And, all that is allowed by the law. The child is no being mistreated....as someone above said, every child in the room in the story you mentioned became a suspect...plain and simple.

I think it is high time you gave public school systems a chance instead of finding a way to bash them every single time you mention one.

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I agree, somewhat, with Jerri Ann. I've been reading this site for a year now. Please, don't get me wrong; it's my favorite. But, as a teacher in the public school system, it does seem as if the comments are often pro-homeschooling and anti-anything else. I often feel as if I need to defend the practive of educators everywhere. Other than Ann Adams, very few regular commentators seem to be understanding of the nature of public schooling. Anytime you plan something for the masses, ie.: education, health care, daycare, maternitity leave, retirement plans in a democratic society, no one will be pleased and people will have their rights infringed upon. (By the way, I am appalled that most of those things are not offered in our country. But that's nother rant.)

I teach in a fairly large elementary school (over 900 kids k-5) in the south. And very often the right thing for one child, class, or grade level is not the right thing for another child, class, or grade level. (You don't treat all of your own children exactly the same either. What works with one doesn't necessarily meet the needs of another.) But, in my years of teaching, most of the time teachers and administrators do try to err on the side of doing the right thing. Give the school the benefit of the doubt.

By the way, I don't leave my things out either, some years they disappear and some years they don't.

Some postive reports about what schools are doing right would be welcome. Us teachers are beginning to feel kind of underappreciated!

And, yeah, I'm wondering too... Did they find the Ipod?

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Okay. In seven years (this time around - this is my third generation of kids not including my generation), I've met many wonderful teachers who are doing the very best they can under circumstances that I couldn't possibly face on a day-to-day basis. I've also met one or two who should have chosen a different career.

I have two special ed children (one orthopedically handicapped) who are thriving because, for the most part, the teachers, counselors, and administrators worked with me to provide the best education possible for the girls.

I have never blamed the teachers or even the local administrators for the flaws in the public schools. There's plenty of blame to go around but, as Rebecca said, that's a rant for another day.

I have some reservations about kids growing up with the idea that they have no rights at all and I'm glad the girls who were strip searched in CA sued and won. That went far beyond a pat down. Pulling up girls' dresses to inspect their underwear goes far beyond a pat down.

I admire the home schooling parents and I'm glad many parents are able to afford private schooling (although abuses occur there as well with even less oversight).

Neither one is an option for me so we do the best we can working with the schools for the kids.

God bless the majority of overworked, underpaid and unappreciated public school teachers.

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Which rule/law is wrong - I say search people. Having lost an iPOD and think I know who STOLE it, I would like to be able to check. The modern world is too soft. Yes. I'd be pissed if I were searched, but if I knew it was for a good reason I'd be content to allow it. Only those with something to hide - or the potential for somthing to hide are afraid

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