Blogger launches anti-physical punishment campaign

I'm a gay rights supporting, ACLU card-carrying, anti-war libertarian and I support the right of parents to act like parents and spank their kid's hiney when they feel it's necessary. Abuse is abuse, spanking is spanking, and people need to get that straight.

Reply

Four years ago, a Canadian school principal was busted for possessing child pornography. Specifically, he collected pictures of children being spanked. Turns out he'd also spanked a number of students during his career.
In 2002, the FBI broke up a nationwide child-spanking pornography ring. A few of its members even made films using their own kids, who could be heard tearfully pleading their innocence.

Now, it's not really news that spanking can take on sexual overtones, as anyone who's seen "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" can tell you. If you doubt it, just type "spanking" into a search engine and see what kind of results you get. And since there are people out there who are sexually drawn to children, it figures that some would enjoy spanking them.

Tragically for many victims, though, society has mostly failed to recognize the potential for sexual abuse in the practice of spanking children or even young adults. Perpetrators often deflect suspicion simply by playing the discipline card.

It's high time we woke up to this problem. You can learn more at www.nospank.net/101.htm and www.nopaddle.com. (See also www.geocities.com/spankwithlove3/techniques.html)

Reply

First of all: though I started out as spanking as part of my parental took kit, it didn't take that long in the parenting gig to realize that there was always a better way to handle a situation. My first was spanked perhaps four times (none after the age of four), my second maybe once, maybe not even once, my third not at all. I outgrew it; I now believe that there is NEVER a time when it's necessary.

However, I do not agree that spanking "can only lead to more severe abuse as a child's 'transgressions' grow more severe". Every person I knew who continued to see spanking as an appropriate strategy (not many of them, but there are a few) never used it past the age of three. (Our children are all older than that, now, and nobody I know continues this practice, which had only ever been reserved for very specific types of misbehaviour in a pre-rational child.)

Once again, I'm not in support of spanking as a disciplinary tool, but neither do I think it generally (and certainly not ALWAYS) leads to more severe abuse. At all.

However, as a daycare provider, I would never, ever suggest spanking as a tactic, not just because there are always other strategies to be used, but because the possibility exists that in this person's mind, spanking could be the door to abuse. It's undeniably a slippery slope for some, and thus never worth the risk - but not a slippery slope for all, or even most.

Reply

It's funny to me how when more and more parents stop spanking more and more kids are having problems. Back in the day when kids were spanked, all ages, they would have thought twice about taking a gun to school....

Reply

Funnily enough, I've blogged about this recently (http://pewari.may.be/2006/01/22/1172/ in case you were interested). I agree wholeheartedly with Mary's comment above and would also add that I do not think criminalising parents is the answer. What we all need is more support, more education and a whole lot of on-the-job learning ;)

I find some public verbal abuse I see far FAR more disturbing and damaging than I would a quick slap around the legs (as distasteful as the latter is). How would that be legislated against?

Reply

Our lives are being legislated to death. Do we really need to eliminate spanking? It's not spanking that leads to more abuse down the road. Abuse occurs by abusive people - people who are not healthy. There are much better causes to support that provide a social good rather than create more governmental control over our lives.
When an abuser spanks their child there is no amount of legislation that will stop him/her. Social Service Departments across the country are understaffed and overworked as it is leading to the death of countless children - children whose parents most often need assistance rather than a jail time.
Parents who abuse and kill their children should be punished severely - however by PG's own words "discipline is to teach". Every person in this country knows that murder is wrong, illegal and will most likely result in jail time - however that is not enough of a deterrent to keep crimes from happening. It could be assumed from social behavior that the threat of incarceration isn't a deterrent at all to the very people who are most likely to get themselves put into jail.
I understand how many Americans feel powerless and out of control. I can recognize that there is some comfort knowing that Big Brother is looking out for you - however I disagree with this point of view. Our society does not need more interference from the government - we need morals, values and respect for each other and ourselves. We need to grow intellectually as a society and teach our children respect and teach ourselves forgiveness and temperance.

Reply

Wow... I'm shocked at the responses.

Please visit my site today to get some answers.

To say that "kids are worse today" is an anecdotal statement that has no statistical proof to back it up.

We can't hit criminals or other adults...why do you condone behavior towards a child that you would not accept towards yourself??

Reply

Regarding us being "legislated to death", are you proposing that we make it legal for adults to assault one another, because they do it anyway?

This is a human rights issue. Children need protection under the law. Will people still hit their kids? Probably. But they will also know that it's been deemed wrong by society and law-abiding people may think twice before resorting to it. They may also find other ways to parent.

The proof is in the pudding. Seventeen countries have outlawed corporal punishment in the home. Their child abuse incidents are virtually non-existent now. Their crime rate has not risen.

The point here is not to leave the judgment call to the adult. What is "spanking" to you is abuse to me. Little Nixmary Brown's uncle said that her father "did what any normal parent would do. He took a belt to her."

Reply

Spanking is spanking, abuse is abuse. I've experienced both, and they are nothing alike. When I've spanked my kids, it was in a controlled manner, only on the bottom, and as a punishment, not as part of an outburst. However I'm a little perplexed by Mary saying nobody she knew spanked past the age of 3. I was subject to spanking until I left home, and my 16 year old doesn't take it for granted that he wouldn't get a spanking if we felt it was warranted.

Reply

And I forgot--if Oprah Winfrey supports something, that pretty much settles it that I don't!

Reply

My daughter is only 10 weeks old so obviously discipline is not an issue for me at this juncture, however, I was spanked when I was a child. I do remember one incidence in particular when I was maybe 6 years old and referred to my mother as *itch. My mother threw me right over her knee...and I deserved it. I never used that sort of language with her ever again. (I never told her it didn't really hurt though, my mother is far too gentle) I can't say what I would do put in the same position since at this point I can't see my sweet little one ever doing anything wrong, but I sure know it made me mind.

Reply

I'm not even going to read all the replies already here. I just want to post my opinion on the matter. I practically raised my oldest nieces for their first few years... I couldn't imagine how anyone could spank a child. I was never spanked. I said I'd never spank my own kids when I had them. Fast forward many years later and I have an extremely high needs child. I'm not about to drug my child but when his behavior is out of line and time out won't work, I will spank... and it WORKS. It's never a first reaction, always a last and only when I've tried everything else. I am not abusing my son. I'm parenting him. Parents provide discipline and no 2 children are alike. We do what works. I am sick of others trying to dictate how I should raise my child. Worry about your own ok?

Reply

OK I read the replies and have more to say. I use spanking once in awhile as I mentioned in my previous reply.. however, I would NEVER find it acceptable for anyone else to do it to my child. I determine when it's necessary and when the grandparents babysit I do not want them doing it. If they can't handle him, I'll pick him up! I once heard them say they spanked him and I was so upset. They never asked me if I was ok with it!

I also agree with PP's that at this age my son is at (2.5) it's just what works. When he's able to understand right from wrong better (and yes, I try and teach him this everyday!), I can't see spanking continuing. I'm sure when he's older there'll be things taken away for a time period instead!

Reply

Sorry to disappoint the anti-spankers, but almost all the unspanked kids I know are brats, and I refuse to raise a brat. I spank and ground my son, and don't make the world revolve around his every whim, so deal with it.

Reply

First off, we all know that 75% of statistics are skewed - lets not bring up statistics in an debate about ethics and parental values.
And we all know that societal values and trends "in other countries" can have a really hard time applying here in America, so lets not compare the US to some other unnamed country - societies and cultures are different.
Also, there is a large difference between spanking a kid and beating them into a coma - no doubt about it.
Reason will show us that handing out the same punishment to a mother who spanks her toddler and a mother who belts her child into the hospital is unnecessary.
Put yourself in the shoes of the truly abusive parent. The anger, deperation and rage focused onto a small child and not having the skills or talents to focus that anger elsewhere. Think of what it must feel like to be driven to beating the life out of your kid, to bloody his nose or give her stichtes. Not normal. Then think of the mother who has told her child over and over not to run out in the street. She sees her son start to go and delivers a swat on the bottom to let him know she's serious.
These are two very different situations - but highly common. How could mother A and mother B deserve the same punishment?
I do not see the value of enacting legislation that can't be enforced when social services can't do enough already.
If you start a cause to get money taken from the defense budget and put it toward social services and childhood/parental development I'll be with you 100%, but you aren't going to help anyone by letting our children be raised by the government.
And I guess I should ask - how do you plan for parents to be reported for spanking? How do you find money to pay for the police and court costs to try someone for spanking their toddler? How do ensure that the law will be clear enough to prevent abuse of the law? Making a law is one thing - making a good law is another thing.

Reply

I do not equate spanking with hitting and abuse. If lovingly and appropriately adminstered, spanking as a method of discipline does not harm a child. Any "hitting" action that does harm a child is not "spanking", it is abuse. "Hitting" and abuse is a separate issue - as far as I'm aware it's already illegal - and spanking should not be made "illegal" because of an assumptive and erroneous connection. I do not agree with panthergirl. I do agree with Meg.

Reply

Why is hitting children any different than hitting your spouse?

I cannot fathom why, when it is possible to raise good children without hitting, anyone would resort to it. Well, yes I can. It's HARDER to parent without hitting.

And "spanking" is just a euphamism for "I've run out of ideas." Most children I know have never been hit by their parents, and they are not brats. They don't fear their parents, don't suffer from anxiety, and know that it's wrong to strike another person.

As for "spanking" being totally different from abuse? Not according to Nixmary Brown's uncle. Her stepfather was just spanking her. With a belt. My parents would tell you they didn't abuse me, either. Unfortunately in the '60s when I went to a teacher and told him what was going on at home he said he was sorry but couldn't do anything about it.

Worry about my own? Sorry...that's how chlidren die. Because people are afraid to advocate for them. I'm really saddened by the comments here, but they just make me that much more dedicated to this important human rights issue.

Reply

I'm sorry, panthergirl, that you were abused as a child. I am thankful that my life experience , which included spanking, was completely different than yours. I believe in advocating for abused children, and work to do so in my corner of the world, yet I do not believe in your method of solving the problem of abuse by criminalizing all parents who choose to spank their children. I also will continue to defend the rights of children, and also the rights of loving, caring parents who choose to spank.

Reply

Ok Panthergirl - differences aside - what would you really like to see happen? On your blog I see a lot af arguments supporting your feelings that corporal punishment is wrong. What I would like to know is what I asked in my previous comments:
How do you plan for parents to be reported for spanking? Specifically, how do you envision the authorities will be notified of a parent spanking their child?
How do you find money to pay for the police and court costs to try someone for spanking their toddler? (Lets not worry about this one yet)
How do ensure that the law will be clear enough to prevent abuse of the law? More specifically, how specific would you like a law to be. Is it any kind of smack or grab to a child? How will you be able to determine and define your standards?
I understand your ideals and I am not going to question their validity - they're yours not mine. However if you are going to convince me that you are right I would like to hear more about what you actually propose to do rather than hear about your childhood or results from studies that support your feelings.
Tell me about the law you want to see enacted.

Reply