Nurse-in scheduled for tomorrow at the Ann Arbor YMCA

This is honestly pissing me off now. This story isn't about breastfeeding, it's about a mom who has a problem with not being able to do whatever she wants where she wants. It's posted very clearly that there are no food and drink in the pool area and it's being turned into some polarizing issue about people not wanting women to breastfeed. Women are allowed to breastfeed at the Y, just not in the pool area. The fact that breasts distract 16 year old lifeguards is an issue too.

I'm all for people being able to breastfeed in public but someone put it best in a comment to the same entry on daddytypes.com,

"I think the polarizing point is that it is becoming increasingly more and more ok for parents to feel that everyone should just be alright with whatever behavior they feel like engaging in for the sake of their family. No consideration, no flexibilty, it's just this is what my kid wants so you'll just have to deal with it. What they want comes above what you want. The Y, Barbara Walters, and the collective society aren’t saying that breastfeeding is bad, they’re just asking for a little consideration for them when you do.

Sorry for the rant… but I’m just tired of this. No wonder todays kids are growing up with less and less respect and consideration for others, look at the example we’re teaching them. Maybe instead of demands, which is exactly the same inflexibilty that Mom's are complaining about, we should find the compromise, isn't that what nature does, find the balance?"

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Ed, you just don't get it. If my baby is hungry, I am not going to compromise with you on it. Have you ever tried to get a six-month-old baby to compromise on being hungry? They're notorious for being pretty selfish that way, you know, about not wanting to go hungry. When my daughter is hungry, I am indeed going to feed her. The fact that you think that is a "whatever I want whenever I want it" issue is frightening to me. We should tell our babies that they should go hungry so that we don't annoy you by nursing at the pool? Are you kidding? You think giving my daughter what she wants, i.e. FOOD, is going to raise her to have a lack of respect and consideration? My goodness, Ed, if you teach your children respect and consideration by denying them food when they're hungry, I highly suspect that Child Protective Services pay a visit to your home post haste.

Before I hear the "Don't nurse by the pool, go somewhere else", let me give a preemptive rebuttal. I am not going to feel relagated to the bathroom in order to do simply feed my child. You wouldn't sit and eat a cheeseburger while sitting on the toilet (at least I hope you wouldn't, though I can't be sure), and I am not going to feel as if I need to nurse my daughter in the bathroom. Suppose my older child is in the swimming pool? I should leave him without parental supervision in order to hide my nursing so that lecherous or uptight old men and uptight women and inattentive lifeguards are comfortable? Are you for real?

When I nurse my daughter by the pool or anywhere else, I show much less skin than your average swimsuit-clad American Britney-Spears wannabe. I am respectful. I don't have my nipples to the wind. Usually nobody can tell what I'm doing unless they're staring at me, and if they're staring... they shouldn't be upset with what they see. If the lifeguards at the Y can't guard lives if I am nursing my daughter, then the Y needs to get better lifeguards.

And regarding bottles... We do not use bottles and never have, and I will not buy a bottle to feed my daughter when I have perfectly good, God-given breasts for the purpose. I will not use a bottle just because it will make anyone else happy.

In short, get over it. I will feed my child whenever she is hungry by the method God intended me to use. If you don't like it, don't look. But if you tell me to stop anywhere else other than in your home? Be prepared for a problem.

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Gosh, I just love the term "lactivist". It's just so close to lascivious! Ha ha!

Anyway, I think we should all grow up. Like Dutch said, though, the lactivists wouldn't be so crazy about this if the puritanical freakshows weren't so crazy about this, too.

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Julie, I'll totally support you nursing your child anywhere that it's OK to feed with a bottle. But if the rules are "no food," and they extend to baby bottles, then they extend to breasts, no matter how inconvenient it is.

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Ed and Elizabeth - with all respect: WAKE UP! At what point did you lose all sense of logic? Moms breastfeeding babies is a beautiful, natural, normal thing. It's like walking, swimming, breathing. You cannot compare it to bringing soda pop or chips into the pool area. I feel like you need an elementary school biology lesson. Boobs and babies does not equal strip show for 16 year old lifeguards. It does equal life lesson for silly teen lifeguards who may think the boobs are there for them. But they aren't. It's like the 'woman is raped cause she asked for it' logic. If the lifeguards are distracted, it's their own problem. Maybe if they grew up in a home where the loving nurturing of a baby was seen as normal, they wouldn't be distracted after all. And what about the bathing gear women wear at the pool. Does that distract them? Maybe women should wear full length sheets at the pool!
All we are asking for is the right to feed our children without boundaries. It is a sad day when people like Ed get up on their soapboxes to decry a woman's freedom of movement based on the fact he thinks a boob is like a bottle of coke. IGNORANCE.

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Oh one more response to Ed's puritan rant. Since when is breastfeeding a 'behavior' that we need to control? You make it sound like all morality is going out the door because of this 'behavior' that people indulge in. It is about breastfeeding, Ed. Unlike smoking, it doesn't hurt anyone. Hurrah to the women of the nurse-in tomorrow. My thoughts will be with you.

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Whether or not your agree with the policy of no nursing in the pool area, it has become abundantly clear that there is no clear policy in this case. The Y has continually changed its story in this case. They have said its a distraction to the life guards, it violates the no food or drink policy, and that she left her other child unattended.

I am sure that since this particular mother asked the front desk BEFORE she went swimming the first time, if she had been aware of a rule against breastfeeding she would have made alternate arrangements.

Whether of not any business (or is the YMCA a charity) should be allowed to have rules regarding breastfeeding is a different issue. The issue in this case is having set rules that are applied fairly to everyone, preferably rules in writing that are available on request.

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A short response. I think it's ok to breastfeed in most places, in public, in a car, in the mall, whereever. The distinguishing factor is a pool with rules. It's not about being puritanical but if people want to turn it into that then fine. That's what my frustration is with this issue in the first place, turning it into something it's not. Again, the Y doesn't have problems with mothers breastfeeding, breastfeeding in public, whatever. They have a rule against drink and food as well as doing other things in the pool area.

If my wife and I were at a pool with our peanut and she were hungry, we'd do like we always do and that's get situated so we can feed her. What do you do when your child is hungry in the car, do you get in the backseat and feed her while driving? Do you pull over?

If making your child wait 10 minutes so you can dry off, get changed and feed them is such a horrible offense then you probably shouldn't have more than one kid or do anything that could otherwise distract you from giving your child whatever they want the instant they want it. Waiting 10-15 minutes isn't going to kill your child, scar them or harm their health.

The person I quoted made more of a statement about people expecting others to conform to whatever they want and while I don't feel that way about breastfeeding (i.e. breastfeed whereever you need to within reason) I do feel that way about other things. If you decide you want to go to a movie, should it be ok to take your child and sit there when they're wailing? I think some misunderstood me and thought my position was that breastfeeding in public should not be done which I attempted to preface my initial comment and say that was not my belief at all.

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Ed, Julie... look... Each year some 1500 children die from drowning in the United States. The Ann Arbor YMCA creates numerous places for mother's to breastfeed their babies whenever the need arises. It's encouraged and permitted in more than 80% of the facility. For heaven's sake, the motto is 'Strong Kids, Strong Families, Strong Community' and they really try to practice it. If they err, they err on the side of caution and as far as they're concerned, this has always only been about pool safety.

So why don't you guys stop looking for villains, there are no bad people in this situation, just folks who think the risk of drowning outweighs the momentary convenience of a breastfeeding mother. It’s an 80,000 sq ft facility, the locker rooms and lobby and most other places in the building are clean and well lit and comfortable. They don’t want breastfeeding next to the pool, or (for some strange reason) in the weight room. The rest of the building is wide open for it. Is this really too hard to understand?

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Ed is more right than most think, he doesn't have the whole story. Mom was at the Y with her 3 year old taking a swim class, she was supposed to be in the pool with the three year old during the class ( Y requires one to one ratio for childrens swim classes), insted she was standing in a foot of water feeding the baby. Lifegaurd asked her to stop for 2 reasons. 1. 3 year old does not have your whole attention., 2. no food in the pool (if baby spits-up into the water the pool has to be drained & cleaned!!!!! If mom would have left the baby in the nursery, or at home none of this would have happend!

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Ed - I'm wiht you 100%. There's nothing wrong with breastfeeding, its not sexual, unsanitary or gross.
BUT IT"S NOT ALLOWED IN ONE ROOM AT THE Y. GET OVER IT!
Holy crap, people just love to demand, demand, demand. Not being allowed to breastfeed at coffee shop, sure thats dumb but not being allowed to breastfeed while standing in the pool itself is a whole other issue!
I love it how breasfteeding nutcases start going on off bottles when it has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
I feel you posters are whack jobs and since crazy gets its way these days you guys should be in luck. People like Ed and I will be here if the world ever comes to its senses.

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"I think there's a rule about not peeing in the pool, too. maybe the YMCA should employ urine-smelling german shepards and sharpshooters to take out any pint-sized ne'er-do-wells that violate that rule. Rules are rules, right Elizabeth?"

Excuse me? Did I say *anything* about shooting mothers or children for breastfeeding? That is one of the most bizarre rejoinders I have ever seen. My pool has a rule that you can't wear shoes in the pool area, but the lifeguards don't start taking potshots at people who don't comply - they ask them to take off their shoes. I might think it's a little silly if they asked me to take the Robeez off my (hypothetical) infant while we were sitting by the pool, but if they want to enforce their rule even against nonwalkers and I can't stand it, I'll go to another pool. There is a huge difference between politely telling someone that she is breaking a pool rule and bringing out the dogs and rifles.

I nursed my baby in public all the time, but only in places where it was OK to give her a bottle. In areas that didn't normally permit food or drink, I either left or asked permission of someone in charge. Which is exactly what my husband did when he was out with her without me, and wanted to give her a bottle of pumped milk.

The Y is a business. As such, it can make reasonable and nondiscriminatory rules about how people must behave on the premises, and require those who won't abide by the rules to leave. "No food and drink" is a reasonable and nondiscriminatory rule. If you don't like it, find another pool, or do without. There is no constitutional right to go swimming.

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Firstly, Ed, thank you for taking the time to explain your position in an intelligent and polite manner. Makes one more sympathetic to your point, unlike Meg who resorted to calling anyone who disagreed with Ed "nutjobs" and breastfeeding nuts, yet didn't make any intelligent point herself other than to say she agreed with Ed: Meg, calling people names is not appropriate for an adult blog. Also Meg, the point about the mother feeding in the pool was made after we all responded to the article itself. That point was not in the article.
Secondly, Elizabeth continues to equate food and drink with breastfeeding, ignoring the fact that a six month old's nutritional needs are more urgent, and certainly more frequent than people on solid foods. Should the mother have to pack up her stuff every twenty to forty minutes and move to another area just to feed her baby. One may as well not go to the pool. Babies can breastfeed for up to an hour. That's very different to wolfing down a sandwhich and rushing back to the pool. On top of that, the food and drink rule is also to stop litter and food going in the pool. I do not advocate breastfeeding in the pool itself, but there is certainly no litter when a baby breastfeeds.
Thirdly, advocating the freedom to breastfeed does not make someone a "breastfeeding nut" or "breastfeeding militant." The anger that this subject brings up, seems to me to be a backlash by those who either don't breastfeed, don't understand breastfeeding, or have no sympathy for what breastfeeding a child involves. We all know breastfeeding is the best thing for kids. So what exactly is the issue with it, people? This "rules are rules" excuse just doesn't cut it.

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"Secondly, Elizabeth continues to equate food and drink with breastfeeding, ignoring the fact that a six month old's nutritional needs are more urgent, and certainly more frequent than people on solid foods."

Actually, I continue to equate it with bottles, not with solid foods. I understand that a nursing infant may need to nurse a bit more often and longer than a formula-fed infant drinks from a bottle, but it's not an immense difference. (And yes, I do know how nursing works - I nursed my baby for 14 months, including pumping at work for nine of them. I applaud those who are able to do it. That doesn't mean that I think that everything in life has to revolve around making it easier.)

I'm all in favor of not discriminating against breastfeeding mothers. Many states have laws that specifically provide that nursing is not indecent exposure, for example, and I think that's great. But I'm not in favor of requiring private businesses to give exceptions for breastfeeding that they don't give for bottle feeding.

Julie said, "In short, get over it. I will feed my child whenever she is hungry by the method God intended me to use. If you don't like it, don't look. But if you tell me to stop anywhere else other than in your home? Be prepared for a problem." The YMCA is in exactly the same position that I would be in if you started nursing in my home (not that I would stop you - as I said in the beginning, I was a nursing mother, and I'm happy to see others nurse). It's their business, and they get to make the rules. The only legal restrictions on those rules is that they can't discriminate, and a ban against feeding babies (or anyone else) by any method (boob, bottle, or cracker) is just not discriminatory. It might not be the best business practice for them, but legally, there's nothing wrong with it.

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"The anger that this subject brings up, seems to me to be a backlash by those who either don't breastfeed, don't understand breastfeeding, or have no sympathy for what breastfeeding a child involves."

Um Jackie, exscuse me - I happily breastfed my son. I hate saying so in these forums because I don't like to use my personal experiences to prove my points. However, I want to point out that I did breastfeed,m I understand breastfeeding and I am sympathetic to it. So shut up on thgat front. And 2, why doesn't it bother you that "Dutch" (the writers psuedonym) can swear up and down and motherfuck all over the place and THAT doesn't bother you? How nice your rose colored glasses must be. What I believe in is the right of the Y to say that breastfeeding isn't allowed by the pool and anyone who is so selfish and childish as to make demands and hold a nurse in over something so trivial is a nutcase.
How ya doing nutcase?

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Ed, Elizabeth - I'd love to continue debating this with you. Unfortunately, I'm bowing out of the discussion due to a nasty element who has lowered the level of discussion. My dad always said, "Never argue with a fool. They'll bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience." Perhaps we'll meet again on another subject. All the best - Jackie

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