Lots of crazy stories coming out of PA lately! A couple of weeks ago it was the mom who went drinking in a bar and left her baby in the car...and more recently the two-year old found unconscious and not breathing in his apartment...he later died and his death is being ruled a homicide. Scary. I get all the Pittsburgh area stories from my Godmother who lives in WV and I've heard a fair share for this month.

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Irene, there was another case like this before you started writing for BB.

I'm as aghast now as I was then. Some people should never set foot in a school.

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I left my big rant on Eden's blog. Here I will say, that as a teacher, I am shocked and appalled. This woman should have her certification revoked. She gives teachers a bad name.

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This reminds me of an incident that happened to me in grade one. (Mind you it was in 1974.) I had hurried back from gym to our classroom (where we changed) and was in the midst of getting back into my school clothes when the teacher came in and gave me heck for running in the hallway (fair enough). My punishment was to walk slowly back to the gym and then back to my classroom dressed as I was. I was just wearing a tee shirt and my underwear. YES she made me walk through the school hallways in my UNDERWEAR. I never told my parents til years later and they were furious.
It really humiliated me and the kids called me panties for years. Teachers don't know the kind of power they wield and they kind of damage they can do with their creative punishments. This teacher should be let go for their bad decision making.

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Not enough info here for me to agree or disagree with those -- even teachers -- that want to throw this teacher out forever.

However, I know NO teachers that "don't know the power they wield and the kind of damage they can weild with their creative punishments." And I've taught for over a decade, in public and private, at all ages, rural and urban.

We know.

We also sometimes lose it.

Brecause, like you and every parent, we're human.

As a middle school teacher and parent myself, I know that there are still some public schools out there which offer NO support from principals or other adults outside the classroom for discipline, and in some cases have told their teachers "deal with it yourself, or else YOU could be fired."

I also know there are some kids who -- for whatever reason, be it adhd or just plain lack of boundary awareness and true sneaky evilness -- refuse to stop pushing. The other kids in the class aren't suddenly adults -- they can't just stay on task because you tell them to ignore someone else. And after a FULL DAY of lost content for every kid in the class, in situations where you can't even send the kid to the hallway, you can truly have no choices.

Consider: principal has said "deal with your kids, and stop sending them to the office." Counselor is out sick. Kid won't shut the hell up, and can't be led back towards the curriculum out of spite or immaturity. Other kids are losing it fast. You aren't legally allowed to send the kid out of the classroom, and you have no "quiet corner." You aren't allowed to leave to get help. You have no other adults in the room. You've exhausted the huge list of standing classroom management techniques that usually work. There's no phone in your classroom, because it's not allowed.

What do YOU do?

Yes, the teacher should be suspended and reprimanded for what was an absolutely dumb moment. I'd LIKE to think there's a better choice, here.

But I can't think of any.

I give thanks every day I don't find myself in these no-choice situations. But I know the day will come.

Unless the teacher is PROUD of what they did, I would suggest that the system can set up scenarios for teachers in which the choices are to do something dumb -- or accept that, this year, no one in your class will learn anything. Firing a teacher in those situations only leaves a hole in an already broken system. Better, I think, to figure out why the teacher felt they had to make this choice, however poorly -- and to make the punishment reflect that context.

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Good for the teacher! I'm on her side. Teachers need more options for disciplining unruly students. If this kid was so disruptive the other students couldn't learn, then she did the right thing.

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In the 70's we had our asses beat with paddles for the same offense.

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"Teachers don't know the kind of power they wield and they kind of damage they can do with their creative punishments. "

Actually, Ginny, the well trained, professional ones do. That's why she should be let go. She showed and absolute lack of professional judgement in behaving as she did.

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Ms Sysiphus - Did u mean to reply to Stephanie?

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Should the teacher be disciplined? Absolutely.

Should she be fired? Absolutely not.

I have serious doubts that this was the child's first disruptive episode. It is my experience that the children who have parents with no respect for teachers and school are the ones who carry out the same disprespect in the classroom. The fact that these parents are DEMANDING her dismsal is indicative.

I sincerely hope that the school board is going to take the child's past behaviour and disciplinary record into consideration in this matter.

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Uh ho here I go again! i just love this site! LOL

First and formost~~Ginny I use to get my ass beat with paddles as well! LOL

Second~ 9and I'm probably going to regret this! LOL) But I think that all of this stems from the home!!! i'm talking abou the child not the teacher! Yes she was out of line, very, but as jason said teachers need more options. it blows my mind that students as allowed to get away with what they do most of thetime. I would fully expect if my son got in trouble for him to GET IN TROUBLE!!!! I mean there are so many people out here shouting dont disipline my child, let me do it, then if your going to do it, the freaken do it! But if your child acts like an ass then its the parents fault, raise them children with some know how of how to respect adults. I'M NOT SAYING slap your child around, but good god! Kids are sooooo disrespectful of any authority figure these days, and you cant denie that! and where does it start in the home!

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Right on Kim.

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CJ - did u ever tell your parents when u got paddled? I didn't. You know why? I didn't want them to know I misbehaved. I would have disappointed my parents and that was NOT what I wanted to do. I respected them too much. These days, the kids go running to tell their parents so the teacher will get in trouble. Parents need to let their kids take responsibility for their behavior instead of defending it. I am sorry this kid had an asthma attack, but I don't think the taping of the mouth was that big of a deal. I am trying to imagine it happening to my children when they get that old and it doesn't bother me as much as some of the posters have indicated it bothers them.

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FTR - I got paddled in the 6th grade for tattling on a boy for writing on his desk. I got paddled all throughout Jr. High by my math teacher for not being able to shut up. I wasn't being defiant. I just could not shut up. I still can't. :o

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Why would any of us want our children publicly humilated? He had an asthma attack-what if he had died? What then? Would that make it ok? If she had taped his arms behind his back, would that have been better?

I agree that some kids ARE completely out of hand, but as ADULTS, there must be a better way of handling that situation, especially if you have been trained to deal with this. If you were mouthing off at work, and your superior had enough, and taped your mouth shut, would that be ok?

I will never condone anyone physically disciplining my child in this way, anymore than I would ever condone any type of abuse. Because if you did this to an adult, it WOULD be an offence of some kind. Why is it ok to use force and questionable methods of discipline on children? Is it because they're children and they can't fight back?

Parents are responsible for their children, but all adults are responsible for the WORLD they grow in. Since kids are so disrespectful, why don't we just paddle the parents and be done with it. Maybe then they'll learn their lesson.

Or maybe they'll just hit back.

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Ok, I know I'm not going to win any points with parents for saying this, but since you don't give your teachers enough support, (second guessing every decision you don't agree with), and the teachers certainly aren't getting the support they deserve from their higher ups, what do you honestly expect? She embarrassed him. If she received support from the parents and her principal this action would have probably fixed the problem. Besides are you aware of the supplies teachers have at their disposal? The strongest the tape could have been would have been masking tape which only slightly pulls at the hair, and on the mouth wouldn't hurt at all.

Are you going to tell me a teacher, who the parents admitted they wanted their son to have, should be fired because their son was embarrassed? You don't think she found it embarrassing to have to tell this child over and over to zip it, with no luck because kids today know they don't have to listen to their teachers. Hell, it's getting to the point that they're starting to realize they don't have to listen to their parents. If they were, shows like Super Nanny and Nanny 911 wouldn't be so popular.

She didn't hit him, she didn't make him walk down the hall in his underwear, all she did was put a piece of tape over his mouth to quiet him. Ok, I wasn't there, but I could see this being done in a joking manner, but because the child was embarrassed complaining to his parents. I think this is a stupid reason to fire what has up till this point been an excellent teacher. Like we have so many good teachers in the first place that we can afford to lose a few here and there (which you are anyway due to low salaries).

Are you saying as parents you've never made questionable judgments? I have, and I'll give you an example of one now. I had a child who at the age of three started pinching in an effort to get attention. I went through all the PC steps, time-outs, talking to him, etc. One day I got fed up and told him after he had pinched me several times that I didn't think he was aware of how much it hurt to be pinched, so I pinched him back. Was this a questionable act? Of course it was, however that child never pinched me again.

Your always going to find someone who doesn't agree with your modes of discipline, but as adults who are supposed to be working as a team to raise our children, we need to act with more cohesion and stop undermining each other. If you have a problem with something your child's teacher says or does, take them aside privately and address it, letting your child know your upset only teaches them that their teacher is not someone they have to respect. Teaching them to disrespect authority is not going to help them in the long run. One of my students told me a story about when he was in Catholic school. He said if he had done something cheeky like not quieting down when the teacher told him repeatedly to, then the teacher would have spanked him. He knew better than to tell his parents about the incident because then he would have gotten a spanking from them for disrespecting his teacher in the first place, so he learned to take what he'd earned.

I'm not saying we should start taking up the rod with kids, that's a measure that should be in the parents hands only. However, we need to start giving our teachers more props for the hard work they do. It's quite a common misconception for parents to think of their children as little angels, but when you put twenty or so of these little angels together, they are more devils than angels if there aren't clear boundaries. Especially if they are taught not to respect the boundaries laid out for them. What I'd like to know is how involved were these parents in regard to their child's schooling? Were they often a presence in their child's classroom?

Bonnie

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I agree with many of the points made here.

Absolutely the teacher should be disciplined.

But fired? I think more information is needed first.

As a teacher, I've been in schools where we were told to "deal with" the problem students and not send them to the office. I've also been in schools were I had absolutely unruly, ill-behaved children who tested every limit, pushed every button, and never showed any remorse. I've had parents who were in absolute denial that their wonderful, perfect baby could ever do anything wrong, or they wanted to know what the other kid did and the punishment they received, or what I had said to provoke their child in the first place(once I had a parent ask me what proof I had; if anyone else had seen and heard what I had seen and heard their child do. It was "my word" against their child's word; he's ten! Hello!! I'm a professional adult! My response?: "Ma'am, have you found in your experience that he always tells you the truth and speaks in language that is not vulgar?") I've even been on campuses where my own child would have been allowed to get away with his offenses since he was a "teacher's kid" had I not stepped in and said, "Make what consequence is supposed to happen, happen." Thankfully, I've never had to deal with all of those scenarios at the same time, on the same campus... yet. But, I do wonder and pray daily for the strength and wisdom to maintain my calm when those storms arise.

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This is why I don't have my kids follow authority with out question. If one of my kids was asked to do this I would hope they would refuse and be sent to the office to call me. They are to follow class room rules, but this, this is appalling.

That being said, if more parents backed up the teacher maybe things like this wouldn't happen, and vice versa.

I have a son who talks non stop. I asked that he be seperated from the rest of the class so he wouldn't talk and be distracted. I was told that this would be humiliating to him and they woudln't do it, I didn't think so. I told them that a little embarrasment goes a long way sometimes.

Home and school need to work together, that doesn't happen enough.

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I didnt have to tell my parents, the principal did that blabbing for me! LOL You remember back then, we wer afraid to go to the principals office. Remember? lol now a days they get a talking to and maybe a sit here and think about what youve done kinda thing! Good grief! I remember my principals paddle had holes in it too! LOL Better air flow on the down swing! LOL

Paddle the parents? lol I'd like to see that! Although I do believe that something needs to be done about things like this, I mean come on, how many times have you gone somewhere and been slapped in the face with one of the "Worlds" lovely disrespectful children, i mean not literally slapped but come across and their parents laugh or better yet the punks kids are no where to be found? These children are the future? That leaves me a bit scared!

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Ok,

If we're going to compare our children's behavior in school to behavior in the workplace, I'll run with that analogy. If you disrespected your boss at work you would risk being fired, and you would probably deserve it. Why? Because our parents taught us to have a basic respect for authority. Do we really want to deprive our children of that? Lets look at the adults in society who have that problem, oh wait, most of them are in jail or unemployable because they keep smarting off to their bosses. That's a happy future for our children.

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