variosu rambling thoughts here-This article is over simplifing things a bit. I live in the Chicago burbs and I now plenty of people who are unhappy with thier private and charter schools too. there is a LOT going down with education these days.

Also I don't think it's fair to use a word like "abandoned" to describe a middle class trend to choose alternative schooling. Public schools themselves played a role in a decline or families wouldn't have left in the 1st place, KWIM?

This has been going on for eons. MyDH attended a public school in an iffy district where most of his parent's friends and kids in his neighborhood went to private school, at the very least for high school. It was a university town in NY. His dad was faculty and they lived in nice upper middle class homes surronded by less well off neighborhoods. My in-laws were commited to the idea of public education and felt it was wrong to choose private school. Most of you are probably too young to remember when Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter sent Amy to public school in DC and the brew hah hah it caused.

I don't see this issue going away, getting resolved. My friend took her MIL to a PTA meeting a few weeks ago and the Grandma said it's the same old crap she dealt with.

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So many type-os while about education to boot! LOL Please forgive!

LB

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For us, we moved to the nice neighborhood for the good schools, because there is NO WAY we can afford to have me home with a baby AND have our boy in private school when the time comes for us to have another baby. So, um, just like staying at home with our kids or working, some of us don't have a choice between public and private schools. I will try ot identify where his education is lacking because of public school and give him opportunities to fill in the gaps. That will be the best I can do for a while.

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PUBLIC SCHOOLS ARE NOT WORKING. LOOK AT RESULTS.
LETS TRY SOMETHING NEW. GIVE PEOPLE A CHOICE. WE HAVE
CHOICE IN THE MOST OF SOCIETY, WHY NOT IN EDUCATION.

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First thing: Mother's day out is a convenience for Moms to get a few things done by themselves, and a little bit of experience for the kids being in a different place, with different rules, adults, toys, kids, etc. They can be good or bad; depends on the program. The kids might even learn a little bit. But they are a BABYSITTING service; they are not SCHOOL.

Second thing: You don't have to accept the status quo. Look for the kind of school you really want. Some public shool districts give you the option of going to other than the one in your neighborhood. They just don't publicize it, 'cause it's more of a paperwork headache for them. Also, they have the attitude of, "If we do it for you, we have to do it for everybody." That's not true; because not "everybody" will ask. They just don't want to be bothered. A little hint I just got from somebody: attend the "back-to-school" nights of a few prospective places first. You might get a feel for what's going to be going on, homework expectations, etc. Another note on testing: they will tell you it is mandatory and required; but it is NOT. You can opt of of having your child take part in standardized testing. Just be prepared for shock, indignation, and a lot of pressure. Who scores the highest on these tests? Kindergarten, first, and second grade girls. They REALLY want these kids to up their overall scores.

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If you end up not caring for the public school atmosphere, go private. There are many "mainstream" private schools out there, religious and not. There also might be small "alternative" schools, but you have to look a little harder for them. Start your own private school, with some like-minded people. Or go really private and exclusive: educate your children yourself. Look into homeschool support groups. It is legal in all 50 states. Some just make you jump through a few more bureaucratic hoops than others. Your kids will not turn out "weird" (unless they would be anyway!)

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At this point, with my kids just starting out in the (public) school system, I beleive that our attitudes and efforts as parents, after school hours is what makes the difference for a child's overall attitude and success. I'm not sure if I would send my kids to private school even if I could afford it. For highschool, maybe, we'll have to see, but I just don't see the difference at the elementary level.

Then again, I live in Canada. How different is it here?

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I am the product of public schools and my parents were both public school employees so it's a big part of who I am. We chose our neighborhood based on the good public school district here. However I know a lot of families even in our neighborhood's "good" district that have chosen to homeschool for reasons varying from religious beliefs to health concerns to pressure and bullying in schools. There are also charter schools, which are public schools but with their own interests and a bit more autonomy.

Many private schools also require their students to take standardized tests, either because the school is required to based on receiving some public funding or because it helps show their "success" in a measureable way for rankings, accreditation, etc.

In my state (CA) a parent can request their child be exempt from testing, for any reason, in the public schools. That's an option that a lot of parents aren't aware of, I think. Still, the schools are tending to teach to pass the test, which I don't like at all.

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My solution for now is to fight for the Voucher System. It sickens me to have to pay the amount of taxes that I do and know that tens of thousands of dollars are spent per kid, and the public education system is still turning out kids who can't read, and who can't put together a coherent sentence. With a Voucher System, the money follows the child... yes, it will open a new can of worms, but the old can of worms has become a moldy, inbred mess that I wouldn't use as fishbait.

In the absence of a Voucher System, which probably will not be in place when it's time for my oldest to go to school, we will choose the best private school we can find (and I'll find a part-time job if I have to), and supplement his education in any way that we can.

Until those of us who are sick of the public education system (and it sound like it's ALL of us) band together and DEMAND, with our votes, letters, and voices that something be done - and not just throwing more money at it, because money doesn't fix stuff, it just gives you more stuff to fix - nothing will get better, the tests for test's sake will continue, and our kids will continue to suffer.

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I have two boys - 10 and 8. The 10 year old went to public school for 1st grade; the 8 y.o. went 1st and 2nd. I noticed immediately a difference between the caliber of education at private school vs. that of public school. It is truly night and day - not only the level of work that they do, but also the expectations that are imposed on the children. Absolutely stunning. In public school, the children barely wrote anything (other than copying things off the board into their journals); in private - the kids started writing immediately, albeit not necessarily well. I think that, in public school, the teachers teach to the lowest common denominator. So, if your child isn't in a GT program, he/she's not going to get the best. My 8 year old was diagnosed with dyslexia and trying (and, ulimately, failing) to get special services for him from the public school was a nightmare. Their position was that he just wasn't bad enough. That was astounding - they actually wanted to wait until he was in 3rd grade before they started working on his obvious reading problems. We had no choice but to move him, and are thrilled that we did. He loves school now, truly. That's very satisfying. On the downside - private school is extraordinarily expensive - not to mention the fact that car pooling is required. It's not unusual for us to spend 3 hours/day (round trip) getting both boys to their schools. So, there is a downside and my husband and I frequently question how long we can continue this (with the expense, both monetary and time) - especially now that we have an 8 mo. daughter.

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I agree that the p.s. system is flawed and really needs to be fixed. But I hope that everyone who is able to even have the private/public debate realizes that they are in a position of priveledge that many families will never experience. ALL children deserve the best education they can get. As long as we all just look out for our own kids and say to hell with everybody elses, the longer we will have crappy schools. I have kids in (public) school too, I want the best education for them, and all the other kids in our city as well.

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In NYC there are a LOT of options - both public and private. In some cases, some religious based schools are not as good as some public schools. In many cases some of our public schools are just as good as the best of our private schools - even with less of an operating budget.

I am a firm believer in public education. I'm sending my daughter to our neighborhood school which is definitely in need of improvement, but we are all working on it together.

I am against private school vouchers - with the exception of severely disabled children (eg, autism) - for moral and philosophic reasons. Everyone, whether they have children or not, pays taxes for public education. If you don't like the school you're zoned for - work hard to change the school, or your community's policy regarding which schools your child can attend (public school choice), or buy your own way out. Democracy is hard work.

With that in mind, I believe in public school choice where public schools have to compete for students to stay in business.

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Not all of us have the luxury of choice or even too much choice in neighborhoods. We survive month to month on limited fixed income and there are many families much worse off than we are.

For any of you who might not know, I'm the legal guardian of three great-granddaughters, all in Middle School now. I've had full guardianship for ten years. I worked most of my adult life until I "retired" to enjoy the golden years. Life hasn't worked out quite as I expected.

I might stay with the public schools in any event and do what I'm doing now. I work to improve them and I make lots of noise. My mildly dyslexic middle girl was given the resources she needed beginning with 2nd grade because her teachers and I pushed it through. They're going to middle school out of neighborhood to a much better school because I was a squeaky wheel.

And I never shut up about NCLB and being able to opt out of the tests. The secret is a secret no longer around here. I tell the world.

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We have done both public and private and I see advantages and disadvantages to both. Our neighborhood elementary school is wonderful. After elementary school, the quality of public schools declines dramatically. When my older kids became middle-school age, I had them attend private school. While I was very happy with the private school experience here are some disadvantges: (1) Going to a neighborhood school keeps kids connected with the neighborhood. Because the private school had kids from all over, friends were not necessarily close by. (2) Transportation was an issue. Many private schools do not provide transportation. As a single mom who is an attorney, having the responsibility to take my kids and pick them up from school was daunting, especially when I had two other kids to transport to other schools/daycare. I tried a carpool for awhile, but eventually had to hire someone to pick my kids ups. All things being equal, I would rather live in a neighborhood where the public schools are of high quality. Therefore, at the end of this school year, we are planning on moving to a neighborhood where the public schools are good at all levels. I am looking forward to having all of my kids attend public schools next year.

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accidentally wound up in private school due to transient neighborhood. teacher in grades 3 to 5 are trying to cover teaching so many levels that all are compromised. chose very small church sch - maybe 10 kids per class that allowed kids to go at their own pace and they were quiet calm and disciplined like back in my day - the 50's. daughter was tested for gifted and failed in 1st grade public school but went on to make straigt a's til college and is on the way to rocket scientist. what does that say about public school?

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I currently have a 9th grader and a 4th grader in Florida public schools. They have only attended the public schools, so I can't really make a true comparison (though I was educated in private schools, that was a long time ago and things have changed a lot since my day).

What I can tell you definitively is that in the public schools here in Florida, an entire semester is devoted to teaching how to pass the standardized tests. For the most part, the regular curriculum is pushed aside and all classes center around the upcoming testing. For the kids, if they are doing well in a subject, they won't have any "homework" during the test-prep grading period, but the kids who struggle are assigned unbelievable amounts of homework. Both of my sons spend this grading period bored to tears (literally) because they both tend to do exceptionally well. I've taken this issue up with their schools on behalf of friends whose children weren't doing quite as well and were being assigned up to 4 hours of additional homework just to prepare for the tests. Not an effective way to keep a child motivated to learn when their best friend has so much free time, yet they have incredible amounts of homework just to prepare for a test.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. Just this week, my 4th grader made a comment about something he learned in school about the Israel-Lebanon war of this summer. I sent a note to the teacher requesting the materials and she sent it to me the other day. Basically, the materials (Weekly Reader)weren't much more than propaganda. The article was totally one-sided and made the other side look like they deserved to be bombed.

When my other son was in 7th grade, we had an awful year. His grades were excellent, but he is socially conscious and lots of things came up, including a teacher who told the class "an American life is worth more than any other". The same year, I presented the law enforcement officer at the middle school with hard evidence of gang activity. I was looking for an acknowledgement of gang activity from the school, but they categorically denied all of my hard evidence (pictures, letters, statements from students.) They had over 50 arrests at my son's middle school that year, but no gang activity??? C'mon! Also, a coach posted a sign in the locker room that read "If the price or brand of sneakers is so important, why did JESUS wear sandals?" The "Jesus" was all caps on the poster. My son took it down from the wall and brought it home for me to read, and I immediately called the school to complain. This is a PUBLIC school, full of non-Christian children, yet a teacher/coach can post such a thing? The Christian kids are allowed and encouraged to pray AT THE FLAG POLE every morning, but there are no such services for kids of other religions. Again, this is a PUBLIC school near Orlando, Florida.

This year, my 9th grader has 4 honors classes, plus Spanish and Building Industrial Tech (shop) and a "study hall". We are 4 weeks into the school year, but he comes home every day upset that kids are allowed to SLEEP in class. The teachers have to power to write referrals---and some do---but by and large, the kids are allowed to continue their naps through class. With 30+ kids per class, I say let the sleepers just stay home if they don't care enough to put forth the effort to learn.

When my yonger son was in first grade, he was put into the ESOL class due to his large vocabulary and his social skills. The thinking was that he would be a big help in teaching non-English speaking students how to adapt. It wasn't that it was a bad program---he definitely benefitted from that class---but had he not been in the gifted program, he would have been behind in the curriculum because all of his class time was used to assist other children. I didn't send him to school to teach, I sent him to learn. I don't begrudge those kids that year, but I volunteered once a week in his class that year, so I saw first hand how it affected him. He had to slow down his own process because the other kids couldn't keep up (not because they weren't intelligent, because they definitely were some smart (and cute) kids, but because they didn't speak English well enough to keep a normal pace in class.

BAically, you have to take it upon yourself to teach your kids to THINK because that's no longer taught in public schools. The focus is on passing tests and following the herd. There is very little room for critical thinking, and the teachers aren't open to even dealing with another mindset because they don't have the time or the resources to do so. Also, the calibre of teachers has declined...but they are mostly products of the same system...especially the younger, newbie teachers.

Just my 2 cents, but make it your mission to teach your kids critical thinking and to not believe everything they are taught, because if you talk to your kids, you'll realize a lot of what they learn at public school is propaganda designed to lead them, not teach them.

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reading the comments, I felt most of them came from women...here's a dad's point of view.....

when I hear people ragging on the public schools, I always get this look on my face and ask the question?? "oh, were you raised in a private school environment?"'....generally the answer is no..."i then like to ask..."hmmm, I assume you're able to read and write?".......with some humor the answer is always yes....it amazes me how much dissing the schools and teachers take......I taught elementary school years ago, and at the meeting the parents tonite,I informed the parents who did attend that one of them if, if there were two, would be required to attend one full day with the class during the school year....the purpose was one of empathy.......everyone critiques, and no one is willing to help......as a retired man, I am now subbing in my local school district......It is a fairly upper middle class area....the kids are, for the most part, well-behaved.....the teachers care, and the principle and asst principle take no crap from the kids.....any problems the parents are asked to come to the school...NOW......homework is done....kids are clean......I wouldn't work in the inner city if the pay was 3 times what I get now.....single parent families...poverty.crime.....I don't believe that's the schools fault or problem.....drive thru the low in come neighborhoods in your town......and ask yourself...."how much empasis is being placed on good educations?"...........you and I know the answer..we're just gettin by........sad commentary on our country......and it's gonna get worse

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I am a public school counselor and parent. I completely understand everyone's concerns, but must take offense by some comments reguarding ps teachers. In most cases the general public has no clue what these teachers must deal with on a daily basis. And I assure you noone is more upset by the current state of affairs than we are. Yes, class size plays a part in what we are able to teach. Yes, we are forced to worry about test scores (our job depends on them). But professional educators cannot carry all the blame. Folks, we live in a new society. I would love for all of my students to come to school "prepared" for the day. That doesn't just mean homework and supplies. That means a bath, sleep, a full stomach, and someone at home to get them there.... etc. At our school for every parents like you, I have 3 that aren't. We've all but stopped sending home homework because noone's there to help get it done. We feed our students breakfast and lunch and offer an afterschool program. Parents no longer feel responsible for their child education or even their child sometimes. "That's your problem", as I've been told many times. We have a meth epademic in our country and teachers are dealing with these affected kids everyday. We can no longer do much discipline without the parents consent... and those aren't the parents who will....... And we wonder why these kids aren't motivated!?


Your children and mine deserve the very best. Unfortunatly in an under funded, buracratic system that's not always the case. It starts at the top. VOTE! Help us out! Noone's more frustrated than we are! I'm here to fight with you, but as most will find, it is truely the parents who can make it happen. But yes, it will take time from your day.

Also, don't complain unless you're willing to help. I won't tell you how to run your office unless I'm more knowledgable about it.... so come spend time in your child's school. Offer to buy "extras"... make copies... lighten the load a bit. I promise you and your child will benefit. And if you feel your child isn't being pushed hard enough, ask the teacher what you could be doing at home as well. I feel, as a parent, I am ultimatley responsible for my childs future... starting here. So reguardless of public or private, I assure you they will be prepared for college etc.
Just a different view point.....

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We are currently in our 4th year of homeschooling -- something at one time I thought only religious fanatics or reclusive weirdos did. We're Christian, but that is not the reason we chose to homeschool, although it does allow our faith to be reinforced in the subject matter. We started homeschooling when my daughter entered 6th grade. I was a substitute teacher in the "best" public school system in our area for 3 years and became greatly concerned about things I saw and heard from the other students.

Homeschooling works. It works for married couples with one income, single parent working families, grandparents rearing grandchildren --whatever the situation, and regardless of the parent's education. Lifestyle changes are worth your child's future. There are so many curriculum programs, that you don't have to replicate a classroom to educate your child. There are DVD programs and ones done totally on the computer, like we use. Of course, there are traditional books, too. Whatever works best for your child.

The children are afforded "learning by doing" opportunities, and the flexibility of schooling at anytime during the day or night. The time that parents spend helping students with 3 hrs. worth of homework is all it takes to homeschool. Homeschool co-ops are popping up everywhere and fully satisfy socialization needs and enrichment opportunities. The test scores of homeschooled students (that aren't taught the test) verify that it is very effective and keeps your mind at ease about who your children are with, if they are being bullied at school, etc.

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In some ways, I'm conflicted on this issue. First, I love Brain, Child and also enjoyed that article. Second, I'm going to be a public school teacher, so obviously I believe in the power of public education. Our education system and the problems with NCLB will not be fixed/changed etc. without the voice and vote of the people. If parents and citizens want a better system, then...they have to be a part of it. For far too long, we've been fed this idea that there's "a crisis." I'm not saying there doesn't need to be improvements, but these changes can't happen without good teachers, healthy buildings (and kids!) and supplies. All of these things take money and time. If people are fed the idea--constantly--that public education is a problem that can't be fixed by the public, then eventually people will believe public education is an impossibility. One more soapbox thing: it drives me nuts when older generations forget that it has only been 3 decades since we've educated everyone; people with disabilities were not invited to stay in public schools until the 70's.
But...all of that aside, my daughter goes to a Montessori toddler program, and we may choose to have to continue there rather than putting her into the public preschool program that's available. Also, we want to move out of the city -- both to be closer to work and to be in a healthier school system. I guess, in the end, there are no easy answers, but I'm doing my best to do my part.
Please also remember when you hear the U.S. school system compared to Asia and Europe -- they track their students, so comparing scores can be complicated.

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