Random drug testing for school play attendees?

Certainly it is necessary to protect students, it is our youth, our future

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If they are not doing anything wrong then what's the big deal. How can people not see this as a good thing - why must we let the children rule us?

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To me, part of the question hinges upon:
- how the drug tests are collected (how invasively);
- what drugs are tested FOR (alcohol? anabolic steroids? prescription drugs? or only illegal drugs?)
- what happens when a positive test occurs;
- what are the privacy safeguards in place for positive testers.

I'd be interested to see how local parents are reacting to this. It seems like it would be terribly difficult to implement without violating some privacy rights of students. Heck, they can't even seem to get that right with elite athletes - publicly releasing information on positive tests before they have been confirmed, however. Who is liable when an innocent student gets publicly branded as a "druggie" when he/she is in fact clean and it's a false positive?

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Wow, I can't think of a better way to create a group of students who resent and actively resist doing anything for the school.

They trust and respect their children that little? how would any of us feel to have this type of intrusion in our lives, perhaps just attending a dinner with work associated? We would NOT like it.

Regardless of what someone is doing/not doing-this is an invasion of privacy. Why do we suddenly not care if the person is a teenager? Why is it suddenly ok?

If I want to test my child for drugs in my own home, that is MY perogative. But I would be very upset if their school would be so presumptious.

And we wonder why teenagers think their elders aren't very bright. I have a lot of trouble understanding how something for basically WRONG is considered protection.

Just another in a long line of freedoms being slowly erased. Because if they can do it to them, they can do it to everyone else eventually.

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thordora - Granted you might be a parent that is involved and would see the signs but there are so many that are NOT involved or if they are they completely miss the signs - isn't a back up nice to have? Whatever happened to teachers/schools/parents working together to bring our future up? And re: not liking it. . .tough. What can adults do that teenagers like? We're not here to be liked or their friends. My husbands company has random drug tests as do my father and several friends. Big deal.

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If they're taking urine tests - having to publicly pee in front of a school official would have been enough for me to totally avoid ANY extracurricular activity when I was a teenager. How many parents would be willing to publicly pee in a cup just to see a school play?

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Great. The kids can learn early that they're not to be trusted.

The signs of drug abuse are usually evident if we watch for them. Parents can test then. Random testing may be legal in some places and I'm aware kids have no rights but this is overkill. It also solves nothing.

It's one more example of government interference and a slow, steady erosion of the principles upon which this country was founded.

You're saying the police can stop my car or break down my door or tap my phone without cause. I shouldn't worry if I haven't done anything wrong.

What a lousy message to send our kids. Guilty until proven innocent.

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So far as I know (and I could be wrong) no company in Canada does drug testing in the ways that is done in the US. And personally, I'm not going to work anywhere that does, because I do not like the implication that I cannot be trusted and therefore must be treated like a child, in case I do something bad for me.

I find it a BIG deal. What happens if someone decides to start testing for pregnancy? Or AIDS? Or a multitude of items that may be considered "undesireable". Will you support that as well? Will it be ok for you too?

It's repugnant to treat any group in this manner, adult or teenager. We're supposed to be working together to raise them as thinking human beings, not robots who have to be tested to ensure compliance. They are PEOPLE. They might make mistakes, just like we do. But I find it morally questionable to randomly test any group in this manner, "just in case".

It's not a nice back up. Having an administration TRULY paying attention to their students, TRULY invested in their future and education is the back up I want. This smacks of the beginnings of a police state environment, and the lazy way out for parents and educators alike.

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Isn't it true that kids who participate in school activities are actually less likely to use drugs anyway? So they're not even really getting to the population they want. Plus the drug-users would simply be even less likely to participate in activities requiring testing, which would disconnect them further from their school. It just seems like a bad idea for more than just privacy issues (which are also valid concerns).

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It's clear that *something* needs to be done about the drug problem in this country. The "War on Drugs" is a dismal failure. So what do we do? We talk. And talk. And talk until we're blue in the face. "This is a bad thing, honey", with a pat on the head, and then we walk away. I firmly believe that drug problems need to be dealt with in a fierce manner. Too many times, kids are found with drugs and they get a 'slap on the wrist' - a day of detention, they have to promise "never to do it again", or they get suspended - but not until AFTER their services as the star sports player have been completed. Schools need to start giving punishments that fit the crime. If you're caught with drugs, it's a CRIME, and you're not allowed back until you're clean.

I think if we started having stiff consequences, fewer kids would be doing this. And a lot of people are going to say "kids will be kids, they're going to do it". Wrong. Kids look for and need boundaries. If there is a stiff punishment that is ABSOLUTELY going to be enforced, they won't do it. And if they *do* do it, the punishment is administered, and they learn from it.

I don't think that kids have as many rights as adults. An unpopular view, yes, but it's what I think. However, I also agree with Nancy regarding the parameters of the testing, and with Thordora and her point about the boundaries of testing (AIDS, pregnancy, etc). And the idea of randomly testing kids when they've shown absolutely no proclivity toward the activity is unnecessary, insulting, and expensive. Where's the money coming from for this? Lab tests are not cheap...

To sum up this ridiculously long rant... We need to stop being so touchy-feely and PC about the drug problem. Everyone needs to be involved - parents, schools, legislators. If you declare something off-limits, and a student is caught with it, the punishment should be known, swift, and sure. And happen every.single.time.

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TOTALLY agree LS. In the midst of my own drug problem as a teenager, I had a teacher tell me "I don't care that you're stoned-just stop coming to my class high"

That was it. I dropped out shortly after, and had to find my own path to not using. Luckily, I was strong enough-many of these kids aren't, and they need HELP.

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Self-fulfilling prophecy: a prediction that, in being made, actually causes itself to become true.

Good to know that kids can still attend classes without being tested, since that's the real point of school anyways. Sheesh.

Yes, kids need boundaries but kids are also more likely to behave themselves if the adults in their lives trust them to make good decisions. If you want to have your kids drug-tested go ahead, but I would never consent to such an insulting policy.

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Yes, Thordora... they do need help. I thought of that after I pushed the "post" button. What I should have included in my rant was this: frankly, I think that the help should come along with the discovery that a kid is coming to school high, or has drugs in his possession. I have no problem with the administration (of the school) instituting a policy that says, "you have drugs, then you're out until you're clean... and here's where you can get that help". There are plenty of programs from free Narc-Anon meetings all the way up to exclusive rehab centers that are available to all income levels and all walks of life. I'm not saying it's easy, but they are there.

I guess my point is that I am sick unto death of all of the tongue-wagging, and all of the "be fair to everyone" drug-testing, and the touchy-feely "Zero-tolerance or three strikes and you're out (unless you want one more chance)" policies. They are nothing more than a bunch of 'adults' who are afraid to BE adults and stand up and say, "You are CHILDREN. We are ADULTS. There are things that you don't know, and we are the authority. These are the rules, and if you break them, there are consequences. If you need help, we are more than willing to give you all that you need, but if you don't do the work, if you don't follow the rules and make an effort, that help is going to go away." Harsh? Yes. Effective. Also yes.

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LS, I think we're not that far apart in our thinking.

It's the idea of random testing that bothers me, no matter where it's done. Of course drugs are a huge problem. I just don't believe this is a solution.

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While I may not agree whole-heartedly with drug testing for extracurriculars, I can't really say that I would openly object to it either. It is certainly a parent's job to keep tabs on their children and to watch for signs of drug use and to do something if they suspect drug use. However, more and more I see parents neglecting their jobs as parents in an attempt to befriend their teenagers. I read an article last week about teenagers partying with drugs and alcohol while parents who are 'chaperoning' the party turn a blind eye. I think about home-schooling more and more these days because I see so many parents neglect their children and the children then run around freely with no guidance and they start doing bad things such as drugs and stealing and cussing and there's no one there to stop them. These are the kids that are in schools with your kids. If the parents won't regulate, I have to say that I'm glad that the school system is trying. While it may not be the best or most appropriate method, if the results are favorable, then what's the real harm? You keep some kids off drugs because they really want to be in the drama club. And what about the teenagers on steroids in school sports? With or without their parents encouraging better performance to 'get that sports scholarship'? To 'get a free ride into college'? There are many factors to consider, but the only way to find out if it will be effective is to give it a chance.

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LS you said it much better than I (I'm not very good at typing out what I'm really trying to say) - I absolutely agree with you.

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and a note to thordora and those who do not agree with random drug-testing in the workplace, I personally am glad that the people who pilot commercial jets, the people who conduct our trains, the people who deliver our mail and teach our children have to be subjected to drug testing. While some may say that regulations are taking away our rights as humans, others might say that some of those regulations are there for our safety and the safety of our children. It's not in the best interest of an employer to trust their employees right off the bat. Trust is something that is earned. And I wouldn't want to be on a plane with a coked out pilot while he is in a period of 'earning' that trust either. I prefer the drug test. So by all means, never work for anyone that does drug testing. Because it means they won't trust you.

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