First Grader suspended for bringing squirt gun to school

A 6 year old brings an ORANGE squirt gun to a school in the US, and is suspended for 10 days?

The policy states: """5.Any object designed to look like or imitate a device as described in 1-4, including water guns."""

BUT, 1-4 1. A firearm as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921.



2. A blackjack, concealable firearm, firearm, firearm silencer, explosive weapon, gas gun, knife, knuckles, machine gun, projectile weapon, rifle, shotgun, spring gun, switchblade knife, as these terms are defined in § 571.010, RSMo.


3. A dangerous weapon as defined in 18 U.S.C. § 930(g)(2).



4. All knives and any other instrument or device used or designed to be used to threaten or assault, whether for attack or defense.


How exactly is an orange squirt gun one of the above items?

Yet again, I'm glad to live in Canada, where problems with guns are relatively rare. (And yes, I'm aware of the events in Montreal lately. It's a rare event here.)

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I think you're out of your mind if you equate a toy squirt gun of the kind pictured above with a replica of a weapon. I don't like guns and would prefer my sons not play with toy gun. Although I'll gladly make an exception for toy water pistols, like Super Soakers, that make no pretense of imitating real weapons. Thing is, I'm sure I agree with you about guns in general. I hate guns. But the connotation of carrying an orange squirt gun is complete different than that of carrying around a scale replica M16 assault rifle.

"Personally, I take the stance that there is no such thing as a toy gun; every gun is treated with the care and caution I'd give to a real weapon."

But see, there is such a thing as a toy gun. A toy is a toy, while a real gun can kill you. Again I say I don't like guns but I think we've all gone goofy nuts with this gun thing. From the glorification of all things gun to this sort of toy fascism that even extends to water pistols. While still broadcast TV is guns, guns, guns from morning 'til night.

The principal should have discretion. He's *paid* to have discretion. There's a difference between, say, carrying that water pistol to school and carrying a realistic replica of a handgun to school, running around and pointing it at people and yelling, "I'm gonna blow your brains all over the wall". I'm not sure the latter requires a federal case be opened but it's certainly cause for concern.

I have no problem with a school district prohibiting "simulated weapons" including this water pistol. But a 10 day suspension for a six year old? I can't imagine 10 day suspension making any sense for a first offense of this kind. Confiscate it and throw it away. Next time, suspend him. Sure, toss a high school kid for a replica, but he probably knows what's he doing.

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Thordora, it's designed to look like or imitate a device described in part 2... to an idiot.

This is just more evidence that we have collectively lost our minds. Just wait until next week when we start executing everyone who commits a felony. These days we're afraid to make judgement calls, and that's frightening.

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Sure, it's harsh. But the school has to follow the rules set forth. Things like that get too confusing and ambiguous when you start making exceptions. If a kid has never seen a real gun, he could potentially bring a real gun to school thinking it was a toy. That's how many kids get shot (thinking a real gun was not), so it's better to be strict about such a rule.

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Its such a double edged sword. I mean if you say its a toy, ok great and all, but where does it the line end? I mena ok so its a toy, but like jpark said how many times have kids gotten shot thinking it was a toy gun, and not real? Now I agree that it is a toy and there is no thinking that its not to us as ADULTS. Hoever, to a child when they play they use everything under the sun to make a gun of some sort, my 3 year old has never had a toy gun at all, but he knows what they are and makes one out of his legos. I won't allow toy guns in my home, am I old fashion, I guess so, but thats me, to each his own. Now as far as the suspension for the first grader? Well I personally think that there are ways to make things clearer, if they bring things looking like a gun such as said toy, then the punishment needs to fit the crime, there shouldn't be the same punishment for another child who brings a real gun to school.

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Thordora, I'm afraid you didn't scroll down far enough on the policy page; you missed this:

"5. Any object designed to look like or imitate a device as described in 1-4, including water guns."

Either you have zero tolerance or you don't. So you allow this, but what about a super-soaker on a scorching hot June day at lunchtime? What about the kid who wants to go hunting after school? Do you forbid guns, but allow swords or bows/arrows? Thanks, but I'd rather have it be zero tolerance.

When I was in high school, there were guns on campus -- locked up in the armory. We also had armed cops riding around the school grounds on dirt bikes. I used to carry a switchblade (illegal outside school as well as in) as did many of my friends. I would rather my kids go to a school with a policy like this than end up with a maybe-gun put to their head. Sure, in first grade squirt guns look like this; later on they get more realistic.

btw, I don't hate guns, I'm actually very much into them. If I didn't have kids, there's about a dozen specific handguns, rifles, and shotguns I'd own. But I'm trying to raise my kids to turn out differently than I did, so we won't be having any guns -- real or play -- while they're young.

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Ummm. A real gun weighs several pounds or more. A squirt gun weighs several ounces. And a child *should* know what a real gun looks like, and be instructed that if someone shows him/her one, to tell a parent or teacher immediately. Obviously, that isn't necessary for a toy gun, and children should know the difference.

And I don't agree with just following the rules blindly, like sheep. A principal should be permitted some leeway in punishment, so you don't have children expelled for bringing a spork to school to eat their lunch with.

Stupid rules should be objected to - not meekly accepted without comment.

Neither my wife nor I are fans of guns, and having grown up in NYC, I have a phobia about a police officer honestly mistaking a fake gun for a real one resulting in a horrible accident. But while my wife objects to *all* guns, I only object to guns that look like guns - so a supersoaker or small squirt gun is ok. We haven't resolved this issue yet.

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We have the same rules and for good reason. Ours even cover innocuous items like nail clippers (a little silly I think).

On the other hand, I would have preferred the principal be allowed a little latitude. Ten days suspension for a six year old? Given the choice, I'd go for loss of recess and a conference with his parents along with a reminder to the student body that the policy includes all simulated weapons, even water guns.

He won't be learning much sitting at home for ten days.

Thordora, I'd love to live in a country where my girls could walk across the street without being assaulted (see Jennifer's BB gun post today) or sit in their living room without being killed by a stray bullet as was the case with one child last year. And kids have been shot by someone mistaking a toy for the real thing (never one that's bright orange as far as I know).

We're not Canada. our 2nd Constitutional Amendment and a strong pro-gun lobby get in the way of reasonable gun laws. A cache of weapons was discovered outside one of our county schools only a week ago. Older kids are much too often found carrying weapons; usually knives but sometimes guns.

Violent crime and our murder rate is far out of proportion to our population in my small city and gangs are a huge problem.

Although I think the punishment went overboard, I'd rather err on the side of safety and it's probably simpler to ban anything that vaguely resembles a weapon than try to darft regulations which say "this is okay but this isn't".

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Roger -

The choices aren't zero tolerance or let anyone carry a weapon around. One choice is - "No weapons or simulated weapons on school property. Gun-like waterguns shall be considered simulated weapons. If a student is caught with a dangerous weapon, he or she will be expelled. If a student is caught with a simulated weapon, he or she shall recieve a 10 day suspension, unless a lesser punishment is imposed by the principal. The principal shall only impose a lesser punishment if there are extenuating circumstances."

The policy as it is already forbids knives and bows and arrows. If a student wants to go hunting after school, he or she can go home to get their weapon. First graders with squirt guns are not a threat to anyone. If they get more realistic, the students are punished appropriately.

Keeping schools safe requires more than blind adherence to a zero tolerance policy. This, like many other things, is more than just a black and white issue.

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"darft"? draft

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Ann I have no problem with banning squirt guns from school. Not because they look like real guns but just because the nature of a squirt gun is to incite unruly behavior -- and wild behavior is better left outside school hours. But the punishment. This "no tolerance" crap I keep hearing about and that drives me up the wall. There is obviously a difference between bringing a real, can-shoot-you-dead weapon to school, or bring a realistic fake to threaten faculty, staff or a fellow student, and bring an orange toy water pistol -- apparently from the picture one of the cheap squeeze kinds with no range that never work for very long.

They shouldn't need to have a no-discretion policy because they shouldn't have principals who can't make reasonable determinations of punishment for varying levels of offense. In this case, take it away, call the parents in, explain the policy, give it the toy to the parents. If he brings it again, sure, step up the punishment.

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San, we agree - just using different words to describe the same thing I think.

The lack of trust in the principal reminds me of a similar subject but it's a rant for another time.

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Roger-I quoted that line-it also states they are designed to imitate items on lines 1-4.

And orange squishy gun you can get for a quarter doesn't not in my mind, have any resemblance to a real gun, unless walmart started making 22 calibre's in orange plastic. That's my main issue. If it was a water gun that LOOKED like a gun, absolutely.

This is a tiny orange toy.

I have a bigger issue with a culture that glorifies gun use through war, or personal ownership, but then becomes "zero tolerance" when segments of it's population to the nth degree.

I hate guns. They serve ZERO purpose but to kill people. But I also hate the continual push to eliminate any type of common sense, relative policy, especially when children are involved. Want to truly solve the problem? Get guns off your streets. Punish the REAL offenders. Stop selling replica guns, BB guns, etc.

Saying, in a nutshell, that this tiny orange gun will lead to a big giant AK-47 is like saying pot will lead to someone becoming a crack ho. Yes you have problems with guns, but surely to gods you can find a smarter solution than treating everyone like a criminal, regardless of age.

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Thordora,

Amen.

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I think that saying that a 'gun' like this will lead to an AK-47 is more like saying that the occasional Tylenol will lead one to become a crack ho.

This is ridiculous. The child thinks he's bringing a toy to school. He's only six. Take the squirt gun away, call his parents, and remind them of the school's policy. With kids this young I really don't think that you can blame them for lapses in judgement like this. An adult, presumably his parent(s), has clearly fallen down on the job here, and now the child is being made to pay for it.

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I find it unbelievable that a first grader should be suspended for a small squirt gun, yet when daughter received a death threat, "I want to bash you in the head, slit your throat and watch you die." from another girl who had been bullying her for three years, gets nothing more than talked to. Yes, we spoke repeatedly to teachers, administrators, superintendant, school board, State Superintendent, Coornidator for Safe & Drug Free Schools. Nothing was done other than a recommendation at the State level to withdraw our daughter and send her to her aunt 2000 miles away for her protection. What's wrong with this picture?!

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A first grader with a toy gun. I understand the concerns, but there seems to be a missed opportunity here to teach more that one lesson. One lesson is not to bring a toy to school, a second is to not bring a toy to school that resembles a gun, and if you want to miss two weeks of school and watch Cartoon Network, mmm. My kids would personally love an unscheduled break from school.
I don't think the child is mature enough (and unfortunately, I guess that too depends on his environment) to understand what all the noise is about. To him,it's just a toy... Is there a long term impact on the child (interest in school) because the adults are over zealous? I really think that 10-days is a bit of an over kill.

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The ten day suspension is idiotic. Weapons in school are very bad, and toys that are made to look like weapons can cause serious problems, possibly can even cause someone to be shot, but, I repeat, a ten day suspension for a little orange plastic squirt gun is idiotic. Their feet are off the ground.

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I guess I'd better start patting down my 5 year old son before school...

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zero tolerance means zero tolerance. end of story.

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