I think there does need to be accountability. But I don't think standardized tests tell the whole story. My daughter has some significant learning problems that make the sort of process-immediately challenge of a standardized test pretty much impossible. But she's developed a lot of skills to compensate in the classroom -- she studies hard, she memorizes well, she does her homework and her classwork. When she has time to process things and study them and think them through, she does okay. So she winds up with good grades and horrible standardized test scores. Holding her back would accomplish nothing. There has to be some sense of the whole child in this sort of thing.

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I think that standardized tests are good... but as was sort of said, some people learn differently. If a student fails the initial test they should be referred to an alternate form, IMO, like one with head phones reading the questions and a touch screen displaying it while read. The same test just in different form.

I dont buy into the test anxiety thing... if you know the material. More just that some people need to see AND hear the question.

Teaching to a test is ok if you know what the test is before hand and can simply create your lesson plans around the material needing to be covered.

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I'm not qualified to give too much of an opinion on if students should pass or fail depending on these tests. What I do know, is that everything changes in the month before our school has state testing. All of the sudden, tutoring is offered(encouraged), teachers get much more serious about teaching. Why aren't they so concerned all the time? If they taught that well all year, the sudden frantic learning would not be necessary.

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I forgot to mention the STRESS!!! My daughter was an absolute wreck from the pressure!

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I agree Amy, I think the teachers need to teach the material throughout the whole year... Scrambling to teach = scrambling to learn.

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George Bush failed standardized test and just look at him. Bush is truly the poster boy for his "no child left behind" policy. The world would be a better place if some of these dummies were left behind.

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NCLB was a bipartisan bill, which got it's start in the office of Ted Kennedy. He was one of the main drafters of the bill, so it's not "all Bush's fault".

As for Standardized Testing, I can see the need for it, but can also understand the angst over it. Schools need some way to know if the students are, in fact, learning those things that should be learned. After all, we use a form of standardized testing as parents - they're called "milestones"... is your child progressing at the rate that she should as far as development? Standardized testing is the same tool. Used properly, they can reveal a student's deficiencies and proficiencies. Used improperly, disaster ensues.

Where the problem come in is when the schools only "teach to the test", cram in the month preceding the test, or teach OTHER than what's on the test, then blame the test for not being 'realistic'.

Curriculum should reflect that which is on the test, as well as developmentally (and environmentally) appropriate material. Conversely, the test itself should be relevant to that which is being taught.

As for holding back students, it shouldn't be *only* the test which determines advancement. Grades earned on assignments, quizzes and tests throughout the year should also be considered. Standardized tests should not be the be-all-end-all of any educational decision.

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Oh Lord, I'll try not to rant too much. As a teacher in TAKS state hell, teaching in 5th grade (where it is required that students pass reading and math before advancing to the 6th grade), I have many opinions on this subject. I'll try to constrain myself.

First, they do not have to pass the test to advance at every grade level (yet). They have to pass reading in 3rd grade to go to 4th, and they have to pass reading and math in 5th to advance to 6th; I don't know about the requirements for upper grades. So, I often end up with students who failed the math TAKS in 3rd and 4th grades but were advanced anyway, and now are struggling to pass 5th (go figure). You cannot tell me those kids don't feel the anxiety of their situation.

Secondly, although the TAKS test is a minimum skills test, most of the skills are tested are at a "higher-level-thinking" scale, not just memory, comprehension, and application, but also analysis, synthesis, and evaluation (Google Bloom's Taxonomy, to learn more.) So, for example, the kids are not "just multiplying", but applying the concept of multiplication using a geometric shape by applying the given formula for area to figure out the perimeter of a square - I'm teaching this next week (keep in mind, we are talking ten and eleven year olds here - mine has a hard time remembering to feed and water the dog every morning and take out the trash.) And even though they just have "to pass", passing is defined differently depending on the test they take. For example, to pass the reading, the student has to make an equivalent of a 71, math, a 72, and science, a 78. I uise the term equivalent because the scores are weighted differently, and not graded as a percentage of right or wrong but on a "scaled score." Also, the passing requirement varies along grade levels. Also, (I know, I used also again!)every year they raise the passing requirements for all of the population sub-groups that are tested at every level. I honestly think this is done so nobody can figure out the inconsitencies of one enormous bureaucratic machine legislating another colossol bureaucratic machine paying a gargantuan testing agency. I swear, I'm not a conspiracy theorist!

3rd - Because test makers know the usual mistakes kids make, they include "right" wrong answers, (putting the answer for A as the 1st part answer of a two step problem.) So, in a stress-filled situation, careless mistakes are made. How well do you pitch in baseball with sweaty palms? So a lot of the test preparation that is just getting kids used to the testing format and what I call, "Number-one-most-common-mistakes" and "where-they're-gonna-try-and-get-you."

4th - If you think teachers really only cram necessary knowledge in the month before the test, Go and look ( http://www.tea.state.tx.us/ ) at the requirements for math in 5th grade for one year; we cover every strand in mathematics; numeracy (including place value, computation with whole numbers, decimals, and fractions), patterning, pre-algebraic thinking, geometry, measurement, probability and statistics, and problem solving. Bear in mind that I'm also accountable for all of those other standards in reading, language arts, science, social studies, and technology since I teach in a self-contained classroom. Still think we are lazing about the other 8 months of the year, watching videos and eating bon-bons? Take one of the online tests (they were released last year) and see how you fare. 5th graders are required to know an awful lot.

5th - Every kids takes TAKS. This year, I have 3 ESL (English as a Second Language) students, from three different countries, taking the test - in English, using highly technical, subject-rich, vocabulary, they've probably not even been exposed to in their native language. Seriously, do you discuss with your kids entomology, adaptations, continental drift, pangaea, lithosphere, hyperbole, inference, dodecagons, and improper fractions (these are some of the words we used this week)? Not, your typical dinner conversation! I don't even know if all of those words translate into their native tongue. Unfortunately for these kids, they speak, read, and write English well enough (2nd-3rd grade level) that they do not qualify for ELL (English Language Learner) modifications.

6th - To be able to take the state-alternative test (SDAA) on a lower grade level, students must qualify for special-ed. To do that in this state, they must have a discrepancy of 20 points between their IQ and the AQ (Ability Quotient) - ok, I made up that word, but I can't remember what it is really called - I'm not a diagnostician. 20 points, exactly. I've had a student with a discrepancy of 18 points before - he didn't qualify. So, if they have an IQ of 85 (80, being considered mildly handicapped) and they are working at a 67 (which is considered moderate to severley handicapped)they would still have to read, understand, and pass a 5th grade level test. We are setting these kids up to fail; they are being sentenced to drop-out, because we don't have any legislatively-approved resources with which to serve them.

7th - The above point is actually a moot one: This is this last year for Resource kids to be instructed outside of the regular classroom (in a resource classroom at their learning level) anyway. So next year, I will also have kids reading on a preK-3 level having to converse, think, and learn with kids on a 4-12th grade level (my 2 highest readers read on 9th and 12th grade reading levels this year). Do you think those kids won't feel pressured, stressed, and even a little stupid? They will come to one of two conclusions, they are stupid or school is stupid. (I, personally, am leaning toward the latter at this point!) And if they think school is stupid, how do you think their behavior is going to affect the learning environment for themselves and their peers?

8th - I've had students fail my class for the year, out of sheer laziness and flat out refusal to do their work, pass the TAKS test, and get promoted to the next grade, over my screaming and hollering foul. What precedent are we setting here? 3 days of test taking excuses 177 days of horridness?

9th - I work my butt off in morning and afternoon tutorials, starting in September, to help my kids pass. Yet, teachers who do NO tutorials, teachers who arrive a 8:00 and leave at 3:00, teachers who teach non-tested subjects, and my administrators (who tutor no kids, but "highly suggest" we do) also recieved the $1,000 bonus our district gave for meeting state requirements last year. If I had less integrity, I'd not do an ounce of extra work, and count on my coworkers to get their share of kids to pass so could collect my bonus. I know other teachers who have.

Please don't get me wrong, I do think teachers and students need to be held accountable. I've known horrible teachers who get by with everything and I've known awesome teachers who were extremely under-recognized. But, I think our system is terribly flawed. Here in the great, huge state that is Texas, I know we have enormous amounts of kids to test. And I don't have a suggestion as to how to monitor all of their achievements and failures (or that of their teachers.) But, I think we have people who are not educators making decisions without realizing the full implications of those decisions. That would be like me offering to represent you in your next divorce or operating on your next broken leg. I think voters should know which politicians are making decisions about public education and are privately educating their own kids (that seems hypocritical to me.) I think more teachers need to be vocal with their vote and I think more parents need to pay attention to legislation that affects their childrens' educations. (Like the fact that a portion of the "No Child Left Behind" law requires high schools to turn over private information on students to military recruiters(http://themmob.org/lmca/). Apparently, we don't want them left behind so they can go to Iraq!

I'm sorry for the length. But not the sentiments expressed. I'll get off my soapbox now.

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I tried to read that whole thing... some of the points were good and some I shrug at because my 4th grader is learning the things you are calling ludacris... Maybe the key is to teach to the test from the earlier grade levels. So they are practicing this stuff in earlier years and it isnt all brand new stuff...

Plus.. politicians are not making the tests... professionals are doing that.

My only real concern that really erases a lot of what was said for me was this "I've had students fail my class for the year, out of sheer laziness and flat out refusal to do their work, pass the TAKS test, and get promoted to the next grade, over my screaming and hollering foul. What precedent are we setting here? 3 days of test taking excuses 177 days of horridness?"

I think that this student should be promoted because they learned the material. It isnt like high school where they are ranked by GPA. It may be just a personality clash with the teacher and the horridness may actually be percieved or slightly provoked -- especially if the teacher would pitch a fit about it. For children, just as adults... there are just sometimes people who make your skin crawl. But... if the student learned the material anyway.. then the teacher and student did their primary job.

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That's a valid point Christine. And honestly, they probably did learn the material, at least from being in the room while it was taught. But, it does irk me on a personal level when you've pulled your hair out all year to get some students to turn in anything with little or no parental assistance (and for perepective, I am only speaking of 4 students out of the 320 I've taught) and then they are promoted on the basis of having passed the test. Of course, it bothers me when adults slack off at their jobs, too. And your right, I do take it as personal affront - maybe I shouldn't.

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*perspective*
*you're right*

yes, I "is" a teacher...LOL!

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Aiieee! My eyes! Ludicrous, please.

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