What is your take on "that's so gay?"
Categories: Teens & tweens, Development, Education
How many times have you looked back on your teenage years and cringed? I know I have about a thousand times. So, when I saw this article about a girl's parents suing a school over what the article referred to as a "playground insult," I had to cringe.
A little background: A classmate asked a Mormon girl if she had 10 moms and the girl, who was a freshman, retorted "that's so gay." (From what I understand after watching The View on TV this morning, it seems as if her classmates turned her into the office.)
The school gave her a warning and put a note in her file, saying it crossed over into anti-gay harassment. Her parents, in turn, sued the school, saying it violated her First Amendment rights.
The school said they had to protect their gay and lesbian students from harassment. The teen said she was not using it in that way, but as a term for silly or stupid.
When I was a teenager, I used that exact phrase. "This is gay" or "that is gay" were probably uttered more than I would care to remember. Honestly, I never even considered the connotations behind the word. Then, one day, I thought about what I was saying. I was referring to something that I considered "stupid" as "gay," which seemed like I was equating being gay with stupid, even though I didn't feel that way.
For me, I chose the wrong word as slang. Once I thought about it and realized that using the word wasn't the best choice (would I ever say "that is so Asian?") I stopped using it. I was using a phrase I had heard a million times without even thinking about the meaning behind it.
And now, all those years later, I cringe at what I said.
What is your take on the story? In case you're interested, the school said they had problems with gay harassment in the past, that's why they had to take a firm stance. Does your child use this word? How do you feel about it?
Thanks to LS for the tip!
A little background: A classmate asked a Mormon girl if she had 10 moms and the girl, who was a freshman, retorted "that's so gay." (From what I understand after watching The View on TV this morning, it seems as if her classmates turned her into the office.)
The school gave her a warning and put a note in her file, saying it crossed over into anti-gay harassment. Her parents, in turn, sued the school, saying it violated her First Amendment rights.
The school said they had to protect their gay and lesbian students from harassment. The teen said she was not using it in that way, but as a term for silly or stupid.
When I was a teenager, I used that exact phrase. "This is gay" or "that is gay" were probably uttered more than I would care to remember. Honestly, I never even considered the connotations behind the word. Then, one day, I thought about what I was saying. I was referring to something that I considered "stupid" as "gay," which seemed like I was equating being gay with stupid, even though I didn't feel that way.
For me, I chose the wrong word as slang. Once I thought about it and realized that using the word wasn't the best choice (would I ever say "that is so Asian?") I stopped using it. I was using a phrase I had heard a million times without even thinking about the meaning behind it.
And now, all those years later, I cringe at what I said.
What is your take on the story? In case you're interested, the school said they had problems with gay harassment in the past, that's why they had to take a firm stance. Does your child use this word? How do you feel about it?
Thanks to LS for the tip!
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Marcia 3-01-2007 @ 3:23PM
I am definately NOT against gay/lesbians, I in fact have several good friends that are lesbians. I heard about this and thought about the same thing. I am guilty of saying 'that's gay' from time to time but by no means am I putting negative connotation on someone actually BEING gay. I try to catch myself before I say it though because I don't want others that don't know me think I have problems with someone's sexual preference.
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LS 3-01-2007 @ 3:27PM
This makes me so angry. Why should this young lady be punished for that phrase when nothing happens to the person(s) who asked her if she had 10 mothers? How is homophobia a more punishable offense than religious discrimination?
I believe that school officials seriously over-reacted on this one, and I support the parents in their defense of their child. This is another case of Political Correctness gone crazy.
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dlbs 3-01-2007 @ 4:05PM
I think the school did over-react, but I also believe that some sort of reaction was needed. I think the student should have been talked to about how using that word can be hurtful and I think it would have been worth talking to the entire school population about as well. But to permanently mark the child's records I think is uncalled for. There are a lot of words that have more than one meaning. Would they have done the same to a new student from Britian who referred to a cigarrette as a fag? What if the child were singing Deck the Halls at Christmas time ("don we know our gay apparel")? In my opinion, many times zero tolerance is a euphemism for zero common sense.
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Kimberly 3-01-2007 @ 4:01PM
I'm a teacher. I do not allow students to use "gay" as an insult in my classroom. Students who do are disciplined. The word is singled out and we talk about why it is NOT ok to use it as an insult. The student is then required to write either a paragraph or an essay indicating they understand why this is not acceptable behaviour.
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Maureen 3-01-2007 @ 4:04PM
While I don't use it much anymore, I was a major offender as a preteen. And I did not relate "that's gay" to people who actually are gay. I know I first started using the word before I knew about homosexuality, so the word obviously wasn't an effort on my part to be "anti-gay".
As an adult,however, I really try to catch myself if a phrase like, "that song is so gay" tries to escape my lips. Punish this girl, no. Explain to her why the phrase could be hurtful to someone, yes. Sue the school because your child was reprimanded, no. Explain to child why the phrase could be hurtful and why the school might have gone overboard, yes.
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heidi 3-01-2007 @ 4:21PM
Wow, this is really absurd.
First, why is it ok to harass this girl about her religion, but not okay to say the word gay?
Second, there is more than one definition for the word gay. The common slang use has nothing to do with homosexuality.
Third, and if the girl had said, "That's so retarded," instead, would she be cited for harassing special needs students?
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Mammacheryl 3-01-2007 @ 5:11PM
I think the school was right. We don't allow negative references to Jews, Blacks, Asians and Hispanics in polite conversation. So what if she meant "gay" as a substitute for "stupid?" That doesn't make it any more appropriate. There's plenty of other non-offensive vocabulary words to use instead. I'm sure she found the situation lame, boring, silly, stupid or inane. If I were the school administrator/teacher, I would have pulled her aside and privately explained to her why I don't appreciate word usage like that and offer my suggestions.
She wasn't really punished. She was warned.
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Sandyone 3-01-2007 @ 5:11PM
If Heather has two mommies and they are lesbians, that makes them gay. If a Mormon girl has 10 mommies, they must be gay, too. Why is there controversy?
And why wasn't the girl with the stupid question, which is prejudicial towards members of the LDS faith, given a warning?
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Sandyone 3-01-2007 @ 5:17PM
Actually, using gay as an insult is bad. I didn't know kids still used it.
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victor 3-01-2007 @ 6:10PM
being a gay dad, hearing this term brings me back to when i was growing up. it is a horrible insult because everytime someone said it, it made me feel like there was something wrong with me and that i was the word "gay" was replacing (stupid, boring, bad, disgusting, etc.). i really wish that kids would stop using the term. i hate to think what my son is going to go through hearing it when he's school age.
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Kimberly 3-01-2007 @ 5:55PM
The "don we now gay apparel" analogy is inane. In that case, the word "gay" refers to "happy," an accepted, non-pejorative meaning of the word.
"To Gyp" or "to jew" are also slang. Does that make their use appropriate? The word "gay" became slang for something stupid or undesirable in a direct response to its use as a definition for homosexuality.
As to the LDS comments, do we even know that the question was meant as a taunt? Given the stereotypes protrayed in the media, could the girl not have been simply curious and asking an honest question?
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SKL 3-01-2007 @ 9:16PM
Since when does the homosexual population have a right to take over all rights to a word in the dictionary??
Just because homosexuals want to call themselves "gay" does not mean nobody else is allowed to use the word in any way that homosexuals don't appreciate. We don't even know that the girl was thinking "homosexual" when she said "gay." I know I've said "gay" lots of times with no thought about homosexuality.
We often say "this black and white," meaning there is no room for argument or "gray area" in a particular discussion. Should there be punishment because some people are also referred to as "black" or "white?" Should Harry Potter books be banned because they refer to a "dark lord"? This is just as ridiculous.
If the girl had said "that's so homosexual," the discussion might be different, because then there would be no question that it was a slur against homosexuals. But even then, I would say that the girl asking "do you have ten moms" also deserves a reprimand. The argument that she may not have meant it as a taunt is irrelevant. The only reason the other girl responded "that's so gay" is because someone said something to her that apparently offended her. If it's appropriate to sensitize kids about homosexuals' feelings, why is it not just as important to sensitize kids about the feelings of LDS?
In my opinion, both girls should have gotten a talking-to and no punishment. The girl's file should be cleared.
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Uly 3-02-2007 @ 6:33PM
SKL, your argument is faulty.
People aren't using "gay" as a synonym for "stupid" because they have it confused with the original meaning of the word (happy). (And if they were using gay to mean happy, I would *totally agree with you*, by the way. Just so you know.) That's what's going on when we talk about things being in "black and white" or "dark lords". We're not talking about skin tone, we're using the original, *primary* definitions of those words.
Instead, they're using "gay" to mean "stupid" because they have grown up in an environment of casual homophobia. The use of "gay" to mean "stupid" is clearly based on the current usage of gay to mean homosexual. That much should really be obvious, and, indeed, I believe it is obvious - even to you, however much you want to try equivocating about it.
And yes, the one who made the anti-Mormon slur should have received the same form of disciplinary action as the one who made the homophobic remark. I do not believe, however, the a warning was an overly zealous punishment. Nor do I believe that this is a violation of her First Amendment rights - I would expect a similar punishment if she just up and yelled "FUCK YOU!" in class, for example, and I'm sure her parents would as well.
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Ann Adams 3-01-2007 @ 11:05PM
As politically correct as I can be sometimes, I think the school overreacted. I agree with SKL. Someone should sit down with both girls and explain that "gay" used in that manner is offensive to many and polygamy was discontinued by the LDS before Utah became a state. (The splinter groups that practice polygamy have nothing to do with the church). The "stereotypes" portrayed by the media (Colorado City for example) refer to the splinter groups. If the girl didn't already know that, she should.
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SM 3-02-2007 @ 7:21AM
I can tell you that in my household that phrase better not be uttered. I've made that clear to my 17- and 14-year-old neices. Unfortunately, that phrase is very common. I constantly hear it when they're talking on the phone, thinking I can't hear them.
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Kimberly 3-02-2007 @ 8:15AM
SKL, by your definition is it ok for people to say "That's so retarded"? Because really, what right do those with mental challenges have to take over a word in the dictionary.
The point here is the fact that, in that saying, the word is *not* uttered with a malicious intent to malign homosexuals is the problem. Just in the same way that kids who say they've been "gyped" are not consciously uttering a slur against gypsies. Unconscious, offhand hate and prejudice are at least as disturbing, if not more so, than the active variety to my mind.
Should there be some sort of note in the girl's file? No. Should she have been allowed to get away with the slur? Also no. Particularly since, if as the school says there had been a problem with gay bashing, I have to think that this topic had been covered and the girl was aware that that particular phrase was out of bounds.
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Jessica 3-02-2007 @ 1:18PM
I am a teacher. The use of the words "gay" as well as "retarded" are used obnoxiously. When my high school students use the words in my classroom I tell them I find it offensive and ugly and would rather they don't use it in my classroom.
I don't inflict any punishment b/c they are really just using a word the rest of their peer group uses and I honestly don't think they are attempting to be malicious towards homosexuals or people with disabilities.
That being said, I find it my RESPONSIBILITY, especially as a teacher, to inform them of the ugliness of those words and what they can do to a person.
Oh, and BTW, my daughter will most certainly be forbidden from using those words.
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Allie 3-03-2007 @ 11:10AM
I agree fully with Uly. I think that the girl being punished for the "that's gay" remark was the correct line of action for the school, but I think that the same should have gone for the kids harassing her about her religion (unless they genuinely didn't know and were asking out of real curiosity rather than being purposefully cruel)
I was guilty of using the phrase "that's so gay!" in junior high, and I assure you that the 'stupid' aspect of it came directly from its association with homosexuality. The complete phrase was often "you're such a fag, that's so gay" or "that's so gay, you dyke", or other things along those lines.
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SKL 3-03-2007 @ 7:09PM
OK, here's why I used "that's so gay" as a kid. I had a friend who was eight years my senior. We were very good friends and never had a spat. When she wanted to say something was silly or funny, she would say "that's so gay." I in turn began to use "that's so gay" in the same way. It had absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality. In those days I honestly did not even imagine that anyone I spoke to at school was homosexual. First of all, most of us were too young to have a real sexual identity. When I used "that's so gay" I was not in any way alluding to any aspect of homosexuality. It was just a word I had picked up. So to be punished for making a slur on homosexuals would have been unfair. As I said, I wouldn't mind if they talked to both girls to make them realize neither of their comments is acceptable in that school at this time. But punishment, especially for a first offense, goes too far.
And regarding the use of the word "gay" to always mean homosexual. It is the gay population that has chosen that word. It's not like other words where labels are given to a group of victims. Furthermore, just because they decide to come out and tell the world they are homosexual doesn't mean everyone else has to treat their chosen label with a new reverence. I am a conservative but liberals don't treat the word "conservative" with any particular reverence. On the contrary, they freely bash conservatives. What's the difference? And how about the way some bash anyone who is openly Christian or, God forbid, "fundamentalist" Christian? I'm tired of having to walk a fine line with respect to some attributes but only those espoused by the liberals. Either we have a rule to respect everyone else, or we don't.
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Uly 3-04-2007 @ 8:24PM
I guarantee you, the children in this case - not even children! - knew the derivation of the word. Similarly, even if as a three year old you unknowingly talked about "jewing" others, as a 20 year old, you should know better.
Furthermore, even if they were somehow so sheltered and ignorant that they really had no clue - which, as I've said, I find *extremely* unlikely, especially if anti-gay harassment is a big problem in this school - they still should have known better than to throw around insults like that. Period, end of discussion.
"Furthermore, just because they decide to come out and tell the world they are homosexual doesn't mean everyone else has to treat their chosen label with a new reverence. I am a conservative but liberals don't treat the word "conservative" with any particular reverence. On the contrary, they freely bash conservatives."
Invalid argument. Are you telling us that you feel you should behave *more* childish than people who insult you? Do you honestly believe that "well, they're rude to me, so I get to be rude to them" is a valid way to run your life? Is this, in fact, a Christian attitude? Isn't it better to respect others, even if they disrespect you, than to answer each insult, each attack, each little comment with a correspondingly rude attitude of your own? (Though it's pretty rich to talk about being insulted when you're a member of the majority. I'm just saying....)
If these beliefs and attitudes are typical of Christians - which I do not happen to believe they are, though they do seem to be the beliefs of the loudest Christians - then you might start to understand *why* some people have lost all patience with members of your religion.
Not that it's especially relevant to this discussion, except inasmuch as the girl who made the anti-Mormon slur should also have, as I and others have said, been reprimanded to the same extent.
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