Parent vs Parent: In favor of circumcision

My parents didn't have this done for my older brother at birth, because they couldn't afford it. When he was three, he had some problems and needed it done. He still remembers that.

My other two brothers had it done at birth. There were no complications, no bad memories, no big deal.

I don't agree that there is no medical reason to circumcize - it is a preventative measure. It is true that uncircumcised kids may never have problems, but if they do, they are a lot more unpleasant than the circumcision at birth. And besides, do most moms really trust their sons to keep clean enough to avoid problems?

That said, I do not feel strongly one way or the other on circumcision. I would probably go along with my husband's preference if he had one. I am glad I have only girls, so this won't be an issue for me.

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I was also undecided on circumcision for a long time. On one hand hand, it did seem mostly unnecessary. On the other hand, it could help prevent some, albeit rare, problems. My mind was made up when my friend had to have her son circumcised at the age of two, because his foreskin wasn't growing while the rest of him was, and was therefore cutting off circulation. She was anti-circumcision until this happened, but you can bet she had her second son cicumcised at birth.

My son is circumcised, and if my on-the-way child is a boy, he will be too.

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I've recently had to re-think mu opinion about circumcision, due to new evidence that circumcised men benefit from substantially lower risk of HIV and HPV transmission via sexual contact. These are serious health considerations, for a procedure that I otherwise would have regarded as mainly a social/religious choice. So that's a fresh set of reasons to take a closer look at the health implications, both pro and con. The World Health Organization is recommending it, and NY City has begun a public health campaign in favor of circumcision.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/14/health/14hiv.html?ex=1323752400&en=af128f63110c1c4d&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

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I had not read the information about the link between a lower risk of HIV and HPV until just recently, but it does add a bit of food for thought to the issue. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Carina's references are absolutely why both my boys are missing their foreskin. Even though we had to wait 4 days for my 2nd boy to be circumcised in an pediatrician's office, and he is more sensitive to pain then my 1st born, I don't care. When you have a sibling die from AIDs it kind of puts things in perspective and if I can help prevent the spread in my boys, especially since I think in the future it may be more of an issue, I am doing whatever I can.

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Do you all realize that the very reasons you all state as reasons to have a son circumcised are the same reasons people use as justification for female circumcision?

There is no problem a boy can have with a foreskin that is a reason to have it removed other than cancer or gangrene. Have an urinary tract infection? Let's try antibiotics, as you would for a girl. Tightness? There are streching exercises.

Most problems boys have with their foreskins are due to over-attention on the part of doctors and parents. Premature retraction, pushing the foreskin back from the glans, is a major cause of scaring and causes infections and adhesions. The foreskin does not need to retract until sexual maturity and it should never ever be forced back. There is no need to clean under it just as there is no reason to spread the labia of a girl and scrub it out in there. Women have more smegma in their labia then men do in their foreskin. It serves a purpose, it is not dirty and in need of cleaning.

As for saying your son seems to have no problems, well you are definiately mistaken. Tight erections and curvuature of the penis is caused by circumcision. Loss of sensation definiately occurs and causes a man to have less control during sex. Loss of lubrication and gliding motion. You know that pounding your husband has to do to finish off? Not necessary if he is intact.

And don't forget the actual procedure. Most doctors don't even use tylenol for pain control. If you were told your child recieved something for the pain it was most likely sugar water on a pacifier. The foreskin is adheared to the penis like a fingernail is adheared to your finger. That is ripped off, pulled through a ring using sharp metal instruments, and finally cut off with a knife. They told you the baby didn't cry? Yeah, after a minute most babies go into shock and stop crying. They brought you a baby that was peaceful and quiet? Well, wouldn't you be after being strapped down to a board naked and then restrained while in a spread eagle position? Think rape, that will give you a good mental picture. Think of a boys first experience with his sexual organ to be one of torture.

It's so sad how parents view their children as property to do with as they wish. That is your sons penis and his future sex life you are messing with when you decide what you think is best for him. Why not let him decide? To admit it's not medically necessary and yet to do it is just barbaric.

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No medical organization in the world recommends routine circumcision of infants. Whether there might be benefits to the procedure for adult men engaged in sexual activity is not even proven. Cutting off a foreskin to prevent problems makes no more sense than cutting off breasts or toes or female genitals, or any other body part that could possibly face an infection sometime in the future. If a man chooses to have himself circumcised for "health reasons" as an adult, then that is his choice as an adult. But there is no reason to take that choice away from a child. Even if a child has a UTI or other genital infection, they can easily be treated with antibiotics or other medications, just as you would treat those infections in a girl.

I look forward to the day that male genital mutilation is outlawed just as it is for girls.

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Oh Alice. You or someone like you, always seems to turn up. Watch the step as you come down off your soap box. And also....judgemental much?

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Hmm. she's not judgemental. She just stated a lot of fact, and if you can't handle it, then usually that means you aren't informed or comfortable with your decision.

She didn't state anything but truths, and she's allowed to state her opinion, just as you were allowd to state yours. She actually was very nice about it, compared to most.

And she's absolutely, 100% correct, problems happen because of ignorant doctors and parents touching and cleaning and not just leaving alone what nature intended.

All of my friends have uncircumsized boys from 3-5 years, we were all informed and didn't allow any retractions or cleaning, and NOT ONE out of all these boys had a problem.

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As a man who was circumcised at birth, I really resent the idea that evolution somehow produced a body part for every mammal on earth that we don't deserve to enjoy.

Now that we know definitively that the foreskin is the best part of the penis (http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/pdf/2007-03-19pressrelease.pdf)
it's important to remember that it's HIS body and therefore HIS decision.

Nearly half of US babies are being left intact, like 80% of the world's males, so "to look normal" is no reason to cut (never has been, really).

No national medical association on earth recommends infant circumcsion, so if you think you have legit "health reasons" better keep researching. A study in Sweden found that 1 in 10,000 males who can urinate will have a problem best treated by circumcision (that problem is BXO/LS which affects ADULT mens' foreskins and womens' clitoral hoods). Non-amputating treatments can handle all other situations just fine.

I sure wish my mom had cared enough to leave me whole, and I've told her so.

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My boys are uncut. I feel the same way Alice does (very strongly), but didn't have the balls (ahem) guts to write it all out.

Hubby was on the fence at first, and asked my ob/gyn his opinion. My doctor was Vietnamese, and he went into a lecture on unnecessary genital mutilation and how backward and barbaric so many Americans are. And if hubby wanted our baby circumcised, he'd have to find someone else to do it.

My husband laughed and said, "Uhm, well, we didn't really want to do it anyway. Just wanted input from a doctor." lol

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Every mammal on earth has a foreskin. Women have a foreskin. Do you circumcise your dog because it is cleaner and will lessen infection? No. So why do it to your little boy? Boys were born with a foreskin for a REASON. Would you cut your little boys ears to match daddy's? Or better yet why not cut off the breast tissue of girls because it will prevent cancer. 1-8 women are getting breast cancer Mastectomies in young girls will certainly get those rates lower! Why this is even an issue is beyond me.
Oh and heres a link about how the foreskin and mucousal layer it provides is actually helpful in PREVENTING the spread of HIV circumcision removes that mucosal layer.
http://health.msn.com/healthnews/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100157237&wa=wsignin1.0

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Contrary to what Alice said, the baby is given pain relief. I observed circumcisions as part of my maternal/neonatal rotation for nursing school a few months ago, and the child not only received tylenol (and not just once!) but also was injected with a local anesthetic at the area before the metal ring device is placed. This injection is also buffered so it does not cause burning upon injection, like some local anesthetics do. The baby barely noticed. He sucked on his (regular not sugared) pacifier and lay there contently. Tylenol for a few hours helps with post procedure tenderness. This is how it was done at the hospital I was at, I cannot speak for other facilities. I cannot imagine that many doctors doing it unanesthetized though.

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I believe that if you are truly informed about circ that you can take care of the intact penis just fine.

There is NO reason for a male to be circed at birth. Most problems that men face when older can be fixed without circ. You just need to do your research!

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I wonder how they know uncut men have a better time in bed than cut men.

I won't get graphic, but I will say that my observations are different from what Alice said on that subject. Not that I have a lot of observations to compare, but enough to make me question this often passionately-advanced argument.

As for one person's hope that this will be made illegal in the US, dream on - that would never get past the Jewish lobby.

Thankfully, it is easy to say no to this procedure if you don't want it for your child. So frankly, I don't understand why it's so controversial. Oh yeah - it's about a man's parts - the most important thing in this whole world. Silly me.

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Wow! I didn't know there was so much discussion about circumcision. I just posted a comment on someone elses page. I'll copy and paste the message I left for her.
Long story short - I had a son circumcised and he suffered horrible problems. I wouldn't recommend doing it and won't be doing it to my next son.

Message left on other page:
---------------------------------------------
Your comments: Good for you! I had my first son circumcised because,
well, my husband
is and I thought it was just what was done. My baby son had too much
skin taken off, bled constantly, and now has what is called
"adhesions". I have no way of knowing if this will cause more
problems in the future like painful erections or not. We've been told
it might, but we're praying for the best. Live and learn, right?I'm
now pregnant with my forth child and the sonogram said it's a boy. We
won't be circumcising him. My coworker has a two uncircumcised sons
and she said they've never had any problems with taking care of it or
health issues. I like how you said your son will have the choice to
have it done when he's older if he wants. That's a good way to look
at it! I wish most parents would research it like you did and maybe
they could avoid the problems like my son had. Thanks!

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My son isn`t circumcised... because he didn`t have a properly formed penis to begin with. But that`s a whole different story.

My husband isn`t, and we weren`t planning on having it done anyway.

I always have to laugh at everyone who says "Can you really trust them to keep it clean??"
Don`t you bathe your children? Don`t you wipe them off when you change their diapers? The foreskin is stuck to the penis in children. There isn`t any room to have any dirt get in there. If you`re so concerned, bathe. Do little girls do anything special to clean their little areas out? It`s no different... And in fact, because of all the crevices and the vaginal opening itself, there is more danger to girls.

My son takes a bath every day. I take a bath everyday, so does my husband. I find more mystery with the only bathing the kids once a week deal that seems to be strangely common. Should I pull all of my son`s teeth because I can`t trust him to brush them well enough to prevent cavities? No - I just help him do it right.

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Emily:

Not all hospitals use analgesics. (None use anesthetics, since they can't be used on babies.) I have no doubt that what you say is true. However, it's not the case with all hospitals or babies who receive some relief.

More importantly, if they can't feel it, that doesn't change the larger question of whether it should be done to a non-consenting individual for non-medical reasons.

SKL:

"Oh yeah - it's about a man's parts - the most important thing in this whole world."

Actually, the opposite is true. Try to talk to a legislator about outlawing male genital mutilation. Then talk to them about decriminalizing female genital mutilation. That'll be very telling. You'll find that male parts are considered much lower than "most important".

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I would like to point out that the risk of HIV transmission reductions they are talking about in those articles for circumcised males only applies when they are having unprotected sex. A condom is certainly a lot more effective than circumcision.

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It was done to me when I was born. I have NO feeling in the "head" of my penis as a result.

Also, in my state Medicaid stopped paying for it, so we are likely to see more and more kids NOT getting it done.

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