Keeping good teachers in the classroom

What a staid argument! Why you're wrong:

Teachers need only a bachelor's. Today, it is almost unheard of to get a professional, salaried position with nothing more than a bachelor's.

Regarding teachers buying their own classroom supplies: In every profession that comes to mind, the employee is responsible for purchasing some of the necessary materials. Many jobs require certain tools, supplies, and materials that aren't provided by the employer. Of course, no one cares about this unless the employer is the government, then some get all socialist and demand that it's out of line for teachers to pay for crayons and glue.

Additionally: Teachers work less than 10 months of the year. That means that they do not work 17% of the calendar year!

It gets old hearing about teachers complaining! Do what other dissatisfied workers do who don't work for the government: Quit!

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yea, that's it. Encourage teachers to quit! Instead of realizing that they do the most important job and take care of our kids. Instead of realizing that teaching goes beyond being in the classroom or during the calender year. Instead of realizing that a teacher attends classes to update lessons on their days off, and stays after hours to ready their room and lesasons. You are probably the same person that thinks it's great that "professional" athletes are paid like they are while teachers, police, firefighters, ect...all work for an average day's salery. Ok, I'll stop now. But you have to put yourself in that person's shoes- do you want someone qualified, content with their job;s pay, and happy to be teaching your child? or do you want it to continue to be a "fight with every tooth and nail" to get the benefits and pay that should be there in the first place situation that is there currently? I see teachers that care about my daughter, and encourage her, and guide her, making sure we keep her on the right path at her school, give her their email addresses and cell numbers when she is out sick so she can ask questions- off the clock! That is the kind of person you are saying needs to "just quit"

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I agree that teachers should be respected and paid decently. But when people talk about teachers' salaries, they rarely compare apples to apples. As the above poster mentioned, teachers work 9 1/2 months out of the year. Their days are short as well (I can never find my daughter's K teacher on campus after 3:00.) Sure there is some work done at home later, but in what other profession can you leave at 3:00 - missing commute hours, doing grocery shopping when it is not crowded, or picking up your own kids from school?

In my former profession as an attorney in a medium sized law firm, my REGULAR hours were 7:30-6:00. If I had a trial or larger workload, I would work much later, and always one or two Saturdays per month. On an hourly basis, I know I earned much less than your average teacher.

No one ever mentions the flexibility that teachers have. What a great job for parents who want more time with their kids! And if money is more important to you - take a summer job, or coach or tutor after school. That would bring your earnings, and work hours, closer to those of other professionals.

Waiting for the flames . . .

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Miss, I'm afraid you're wrong.

In California, public school teachers need both a bachelor's and a credential -- the equivalent of a graduate degree, even though the universities do not consider it such. Teachers often are required to get additional certifications as well as take continuing education courses in order to maintain an active credential.

As for getting a job without a bachelor's, I don't even have an AA (I dropped out of a community college) and I have a "professional, salaried position". In fact, I earn considerably more than my wife does. Most of my colleagues do not have advanced degrees.

I'm not sure what professions you're familiar with, but I know in the tech industry, salaried employees are provided everything they need. I know a fair number of executive types and, other than their suits and briefcases, everything they need is provided by their employers.

Yes, teachers are only required to work ten months of the year (more than ten, not less, by the way). That doesn't mean they are able to do their job in that amount of time. My wife spends much of the summer working on lesson plans and materials for the upcoming school year -- even though she is NOT PAID for those two months. Yes, they supposedly don't work for two months, but they are also not paid for two months.

"Do what other dissatisfied workers do who don't work for the government: Quit!"

Um, did you read the article? That's the problem -- the good ones are. Do you really want your kids (or the neighbor kids who know you have that nice TV and all that fancy jewelry) to grow up being taught by someone who shows up just in time to put the video on and leaves as soon as the last kid is out the door? Do you really want to see all of our professional positions moving to other countries, leaving us to be nothing more than a nation of gas pump jockies and burglars?

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Yes, Roger, that's really what I want to see. I want the teachers who are unhappy to quit. More than anything, though, I'm biding my time until education, like most everything else in the U.S., is privatized and actually worth something. Until that time, I actively encourage dissatisfied educators to quit their jobs.

Shannon: I think it's very sad that officers, firemen, EMTs, etc. are paid like crap. But I rarely hear complaints about it. Teachers, on the other hand, whine all the dang time. Once again, these salaries of cops, etc. would not continue at so low a rate if there was COMPETITION. This is another area which must be privatized.

Roger, as for you finding a salaried position without a degree: I can only chalk that up to California. Never been there, but I hear that it's different than the rest of the country. More liberal, higher-paying, etc. Not bashing your state, just saying that CA is probably not a reflection of the rest of the nation. Here in SC, a bachelor's will honestly get you behind the cash registers at the mall. Without a bachelor's, you're stuck stocking, filling orders, manning the dressing room, etc., so I guess the degree is a step up, though not in the way people would have believed. It's also useful to consider that exactly 50% of SC teens do not graduate high school.

By the way: I don't believe in free education access. Every single thing must be paid for, except education. Even those who support education for all must admit that it has not worked out.

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Our oldest girl has cerebral palsy and a learning disability. Her public school teachers have been there for her and our other two girls from pre-school on. As a result, she's an honor roll student, will begin high school next year, and is on track to graduate.

I have the teacher's email address and home phone number. She often calls me. Her IEP meetings are well prepared. She spends many weekends in the classroom and spends hours of her evenings preparing for the next day.

She didn't quit but I wouldn't blame her if she did.

As for summer "vacation", many teachers use the time improving their skills. Some here even take temporary jobs to help support their families.

Uncle Roger, your wife rocks!!

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Damn! Does anyone even recall that part of the reason teachers can't work all 12 months of the year is that they need continued education in order to stay certified? That you do need a masters in most states, and if you don't have one the likelihood of being hired is poor?

Most jobs that I know of pay for all equipment and materials - research (as in university), industry, and government. The only jobs I know of where you don't have that is where you are making plenty of money on your own and a Blackberry is considered equipment.

$1000 less a month, how can you afford to live if you have that amount of pay cut? That would have cut my pay in half, and presently my husbands by a third. Why would anyone want to work if they are rewarded by such a decrease in pay? I would not have stayed!

Sigh. In the course of being a stay at home mom I have been re-evaluating what to do with my career. I have a masters in science (biochemistry) and I know that there is a shortage of science and math teachers as well as women teachers in those fields. I was really considering getting an M. Ed., not so sure I would want to do that now. Especially with folks like Miss who are the reason that overly qualified people like myself would not want to venture into it.

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Arrgghh! This is such a frustrating subject. Personally, I suspect that the rise of "terrible teacher" stories is directly linked to the fact that the best teachers are fleeing in droves.

Unless we want our society to become even more class-driven and class-riven, we have to address the problems with our public education system. On its face, privatization does not appear to be the answer - if the statisically shockingly high number of charter schools cited and/or closed for failing to meet state educational standards are any indication.

My mother was a teacher. I was a senior paralegal at a NY law firm. Of the two of us, she definitely worked longer hours. I made three times her salary. She spent her own money for supplies. I got reimbursed by the firm if I took a new employee out to lunch. She spent her summers taking additional classes required to maintain her certificate. I had four weeks vacation I could take more or less at will.

Without those "greedy" public school teachers, higher paying jobs like mine would not be available to many of us born outside the wealthier families who can afford private school tuition. Oh, the irony.

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Wow Miss, the 2 comments I've seen from you today have both been rude and completely off-base. To be a teacher under federal recommendations, you must have a bachelors degree, a teaching credential, and within 5 years, you must obtain a masters degree.

There certainly are other professions where you must buy supplies (such as a carpenter, mechanic, etc.) but those things are then owned buy the person and used by the person - plus they may last for many, many years, or even a lifetime. When I buy glue for my classroom, it will be used up by the end of the year (though it rarely makes it that far) and I will have to buy new supplies every year. I think of these school supplies more like I would the parts a mechanic purchases to fix your car - yes, he provides them, but you are billed for them. I probably spend about $1500 PER YEAR on my supplies for my classroom. And when you only make $26,000 BEFORE taxes, that is a LOT of money.

The reason teacher don't "just quit" as you suggest is because the vast majority of us are there for the kids, not the money. Trust me, teaching is not about the money. We stay because it's what we love - but that doesn't mean I can do it for free. About half of the single teachers I know work a second job during the school and/or the summer to make ends meet, because they don't get paid enough to live in the communities they work in. I realize that I get 2.5 months off a year (though I work a great deal during that time, preparing for the next year and attending courses to make me a better teacher) and my salary will suffer because of it, but I don't think it's unreasonable that I should be able to get a salary I can live off of when I'm performing one of society's most vital jobs!!!

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By the way, I just have to add this: despite the fact that you will basically never see me waving around the American flag, I must say that the reason this country has gotten as far as it has in such a short time is precisely because we have a "free" (we all know it isn't really free) system of education for EVERYONE. It is probably the best aspect of this nation!

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It's very rare for me to hear a teacher say he or she went into teaching for the kids. Yes, they may like children more than the average person, but the primary reason is the work schedule. Here in MN, teachers take a fall break (they say it's for training or something, but every teacher I know goes to their lake cabin during those days off), a three week winter break, a one week spring break, and three months off in the summer. Plus all those extra holidays they get during the year. And most of them make more than I make with a doctorate degree. Sometimes I wish I'd chosen to go into teaching.

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If you're not in teaching for the kids, I have two word for you - GET OUT!

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I have been teaching for 26 years, and the most I ever made was 46,000, that last year. I walked out of the public schools in a huff four years ago, and now I am teaching in a community college. My annual salary? $14,000. I have a Master's Degree. I work year-round. Why? Because I love my students and watching them learn and succeed somehow completes me.

I make $14,000 a year. That's $6,500 per semester, plus a thousand for summer sessions. Care to trade with me, Miss? I'm one of those overpaid teachers, you know.

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ok, the one year i worked as a teacher i worked 10-12 hour days and i usually plaid catch up on sundays for a few years. silly me commuted so i was gone at least 12 hours a day most days. not the best was to raise a family so i got out even though i loved teaching. DH made double what i did adn he worked half the hours and he hated when i brought work home. So i was one of the ones that left.

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I do think that many teachers choose to teach because they think the schedule will be easy. Then they find out it's basically a 40-hour-per-week job just like everyone else's (except in the summer), and they start bitching. The $46,000 that someone mentioned above isn't peanuts for that work schedule. As for having to take additional courses to keep up professional standards, join the club - most professionals have to do that - and none besides teachers have the summer free to do it - we just have to squeeze it in between our long work hours (usually a lot more than 40). It's called self-improvement - it enhances your resume - shame on you if you don't think continuing education benefits you as well as your students.

Teaching is an important job and I agree that teachers are often hamstrung by the school administrations. Basically, by the fact that schools are run by politics and government bureaucracy. That's why they are doomed to inefficiency. And because the unions are not fighting for the right values - they are fighting for the mediocre teachers at the expense of those who are truly passionate about teaching. And because the curriculum is getting more and more distorted by substituting social propoganda for academic material. And because nobody believes that after a certain age (e.g., grade 4), a student's performance should be HIS OWN responsibility.

Funny how Abraham Lincoln (and many others) attended school for less than a year, yet managed to be a successful lawyer (among other things). Why could that be accomplished in a backwoods school with practically no materials, administration, parental support, etc.? Because people didn't treat kids like helpless, irresponsible idiots in those days, like they do now.

This is certainly nothing new. The six fixes suggested in the article are just more of the same vague BS I've been hearing since I was in education classes 24 years ago. With the attitudes I hear here, nothing will change. Or, actually, I would expect things to get worse.

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In MA you also have to get your masters within 5 years. My sister has been teaching in our hometown for the last several years and has had to buy her own supplies every year. And every year her class size grows and she gets no additional text books or work books. I have a friend that also teaches and has some awful stories about how little they have.

As far as how many months she works. She works all but 1 month a year. She starts getting her classroom ready in August. She continues HER OWN education the rest of the year so she can better educate the kids.

We want the kids in the US to be right up there education wise. But heaven forbid we actually pay them for the work they do and appreciate them for taking care of the kids. Many of whom have ignorant parents like Miss

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