I'm right there with you. My 2 year old is in the TERRIBLE TWOs bigtime, but she still listens to me for the most part. My 4 year old, who skipped the tantrum phase, is in the ignoring phase and it's much more difficult to deal with than a tantrum. Time-outs didn't seem to do anything, taking away toys, no results. We've moved on to a reward ladder system. When he is a good listener, his thumbtack moves up the ladder we made and he moves closer to a goal... like a trip to the farm or some other fun thing. If he decides not to listen, he moves back down the ladder. This system has provided the best results so far. There are still days when he decides moving down is worth whatever he wants to do, but not as much as before.

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Sigh. This may or may not help but my instructor told me last week (with my presently 2 year old in upheaval) the mantra "To know myself I must defy you." Which, she explained, is that a kid is going to defy you so that they can know that they can - and better now then when they are teenagers. That is, I think you'd rather deal with this now then a teenager that defies you with drinking or unprotected sex or whatever (instead of say, not doing the dishes when asked). Doesn't mean it isn't crazy making!

She's learning your limits and what the consequences are, and that you are in charge - not her.

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I think that the ladder system is a great idea, we are having a hard time findig punishments that work on our 8 year old, and I think that might just do the trick, to see how every action reflects on an event. I guess there are a lot of things by now he should just know, but since our 3 year old has become more independant (not so willingly) our older child seems to have reverted on a lot of his behavior. I hear this is normal, but don't know what to do when the punishments are not working. thanks for posting that.

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Oh, Maureen.... maybe you're saving my life, here. My 3-year-old is right smack in the middle of the "ignore" phase. I take half the blame for it - he's a chatterer, meaning that he talks ALL the time, about everything. Keeps up a running dialogue of what he's doing. He plays well by himself, and narrates his play, so often I don't notice that he's said something to me until he's said it six times. My bad, I need to listen better.

However. When you look directly into his eyes, and say, "please put your shoes on, it's time to go" and he walks away and picks up his toy car to play... aaarrrrrghghghghghghgh!!!!!

I, too, have tried the time-outs, taking things away, even (gasp!) a spanking. Nothing works. Now I will try your Ladder idea. I hope it works.

(and I will keep your message in mind, too, Ethel... you're right. I would SO rather deal with not putting on shoes than him getting drunk)

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With some children there are signs that they are flat out not listening to you, my brother would cross his arms. My mom knew if his arms were crossed he had quit listening to her, so she would sit there and wait him out and/or make him uncross his arms. Don't know if that helps any, but at least you could look for a sign that she's actually doing it and take action. And since you have already drawn the line and she is still not listening and timeouts are getting old, it might be time to try a punishment that she really hates. I have found extra chores work great.

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Don't say things like "Don't go in the river". All you do is put the idea "...go in the river" in her mind.

You might have some more success with "If you go in the river, you'll get wet, and you won't like that" or "Please come here now!" or something.

Honestly, though, this is a stage all kids go through. Making a big deal about it (harsher consequences) seems likely to increase its duration. My advice? Proceed as though she'd responded. As she's older, this means you can have great fun. "Hey, honey? What do you want for dinner? Honey? Oh, you want to have elephants for dinner? That's a bit silly..."

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My mom had a way of grabbing the child's jaw with one hand, making him face her, and saying sharply "I'm talking to you" and not letting go until he responded appropriately. It was not painful, but got the desired attention, and showed that she considered ignoring to be disrespectful, AKA forbidden. Ignoring was very rare in our house, though I do see it a lot in other preschoolers.

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Instead of talking louder, try the reverse. Start whispering. My kids settle down and pay attention, just in case I'm saying somethng they might want to hear (like: who wants ice cream?)

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Check out "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen and Listen so Kids Will Talk" by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. I borrowed it from my library after countless recommendations, and it has some excellent ideas on how to best communicate with your kids.

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I'm a firm believer in conscious discipline and the book "Easy to love, Difficult to discipline." Try giving her useful information and telling her what to do instead of what not to do, for example, instead of "Don't jump in the river" because all she hears is "jump in the river" try "Keep your feet on the dry ground."

Also, try explaining how it makes you feel when she doesn't listen... "I feel ignored/angry/ frustrated when you don't listen." And make sure that you have her attention when you are telling her what to do instead of what I find myself doing, yelling from the kitchen sink while I was the dishes.

This is just what works in my house and we are also a very verbal family wiht a 2.5 year old and 4 year old. And remember it takes 2000 times in context for her to put these ideas into practice.

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I have had to start insisting that my children say, "Yes ma'am" and "No ma'am" (or sir) to make sure I know they were listening. It's working so far and soon, it will be a habit for them. When I was growing up, that's how we were expected to reply. I only wish I'd have started it before they were 5 and 6. I didn't see the necessity until now.

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