Junie B. Jones and the case for spelling, grammar

Of course they shouldn't be banned, but parents and teachers should be warned and aware of what garbage the kids are reading.

I think we read one Junie B. and I was not pleased.

I had always thought that phonics was THE WAY. My kids have taught me differently. Phonics learning is very important, but there are so many exceptions to the rules that there is a place for whole word learning, too. All of the rule-breaking really drove my kids around a bend!

I allow invented spelling and all kinds of error in their early writings, but the things they *read* should be good examples of proper English. I swore that my kids wouldn't read Magic Treehouse to themselves, though I was quite happy reading it *to* them. However, confidence has been a huge factor in my kids' ability to read and my first son was convinced that the only books he could read were Magic Treehouse. He wouldn't look at simpler books. I gave him a book and he said, "I can't read that. I can only read Magic Treehouse." He really believed that. So I let him read. I still don't like for my kids to read poorly written books, but I allow it for the confidence it builds. I treat these books like junk food...a little bit is ok, but if they don't get some better nutrition, they'll suffer.

My kids get to the point where they suspect that what they've written isn't correct and then they work hard to learn the correct way. Who likes to be wrong?

I think it does a disservice to kids to feed them stuff that's just plain wrong. They get it wrong all by themselves, without having it modelled that way. Give them good stuff so they'll recognize what's wrong in their own work.

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To each, their own! I know that my son won't be reading these books, unless it's to play a game of 'what wrong with this sentence and how would we fix it?"! We all mostly learn by example, even if we learn the rules we aren't going to use them unless we see everyone else using them. And if you can’t remember the name of the rule and all it’s exceptions, if you have enough of an example of good writing you will be able to say to yourself ‘hmm this sentence just isn’t right, let me try something else.” Plus, MS Word has all the rules and it’s really annoying to get those squiggly lines and not know how to fix them! 

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A good phonics based program has whole language elements, but most importantly it gives children the tools to break down new words they encounter in the future. In whole language - it is just a guessing game.

I do not allow creative spelling in my classroom, but I do allow it in certain environments. However, children must FIRST learn the rules before they are given an opportunity to choose when to break them.

The bigger problem with Junie B. is her nasty behavior and the temptation for children to imitate that behavior. But to ban them? No way! My daughter (and son) read every book, but we discussed the language and behavior choices. I don't see why parents can't discuss the writing style as well.

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I'm a teacher and I adore the Junie B. books, as do my grade two students. There are lots of kids books that don't use 100% correct grammar. Like the above poster stated, the Magic Tree House Books are, in my opinion, even worse, because in Junie B., the only poor grammar is used in quotes as being spoken by a 6 year old. Where as in the MTH books, the poor grammar is just the author's way of writing. (My pet peeve with those books is the fragmented sentences. To create. A dramatic. Tone. lol)

We talk about the "funny" words Junie says in my class. We use them as an example to teach the correct way. I even have a book of activities with a Junie B section in it, that has little worksheets where they can "fix" Junie's words and grammar. Why not use it as a learning tool instead of just denying them? Talk about how when Junie says "I runned", what should it be instead?

As for her hijinks and saucy attitude - that's the best part! Are we also going to ban mischievous Ramona, among many others?

I personally can't wait to read Junie B with my daughter when she's old enough.

I am totally not for banning the books - ANY books. If a kid is happy reading - that's great. We want to foster a love or reading first and foremost, not focus on whether a book has "perfect" grammar or not.

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Ezzakly wat she sed! I LUV you joonie B.!

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A ban would be silly. Just vote with your pocketbook.

I believe it's very important to teach and model impeccable grammar and spelling. As well as respect for elders. But I also like the idea of using errors as a teaching opportunity.

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A ban WOULD be stupid.
However, I don't think these books are helpful. You mentioned a "whole learning" approach, which has its merits. However, for it to work, kids have to have both the freedom to explore language AND excellent examples of how it's used properly.

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Sorry, but I just do not, can not and will not allow
"creative" spelling etc in my house. No way, no how.

Even when I am on IM (instant messenger) I do not shorten things or miss spell them to "be quick"

things like what Karen posted annoy the freaking shit out of me and I seriously do not see why "proper" spelling and grammar can not be taught now like it was when I was a student in elementary school.

Crap like this is a reason why American students are falling behind and are lazy. Oh, that and the fact that most parents dont give a rats ass. Mainly because they cant read, speak or spell correctly themselves.

You get back what you put into it folks. That shit is what is going to ruin this country

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I was definitely a whole language learner as a child, in a school that was intensely phonics-based. I remember at one point I was reading well above grade level, but was barely able to pass the phonics tests.

In general, I think some kids learn best one way, some learn best the other way, and some do well with a mix. I don't think it needs to be so black and white.

As for Junie B., well, my 6-year-old adores them, and while her grammar has not suffered, it has prompted her to start writing every day in her own journal "just like Junie B., Mommy."

So we'll be reading right up through, "Junie B., post-doctoral fellow," if I have anything to say about it.

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I have to admit that if I had to choose between my kid reading a poorly-written book versus not reading at all, I'd choose the crappy book.

Any reading tends to increase confidence in young readers, and increase the likelihood of them continuing to pick up progressively harder books.

That said, with a bit of effort, parents should be able to find a vast variety of well-written children's books that are engaging to just about any child. But, if my kid happens to be one of those little socialites who will read whatever her friends are reading and little else, and the popular book happens to be Junie B, then so be it. I'd try to make it a stepping stone to better things.

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I dislike the whole "net speak" style of typing, like Karen posted above. It's like nails on a chalkboard, for the eyes.

However, it depends on the age of the kids. I wouldn't let, say, Grade 8 students write like that. But I would never say I don't "allow" my grade two students to use invented spelling. Learning to spell and write correctly is a process, and as Margaret pointed out not everyone learns in the same way.

I have a 10 month old daughter, when she says "nana" for "banana" I don't tell her she is doing it wrong, and to say it properly. I understand that learning is a continuum, a process, not a switch that flips on or an empty bucket awaiting filling. By modeling the correct word for her, she will eventually get it. I wonder what effect acting disapproving at her first attempts at speaking would be? It's the same when kids are learning to spell and write.

As for my students, I don't think one funny book is going to ruin their chances at learning, when I model correct spelling and grammar for them all the time, and do lessons on how to write and spell correctly every day.

But their are times when spelling truly is not important. I never correct their spelling in their journals. It's like a diary, it's only for their (and my) eyes. When we are taking written work to the "publish" level, then we get into the editing process. It's called learning about writing with audience and purpose in mind. Think about your own life - do you take the same time and care writing your grocery list as you do your resume?

I think this whole Junie B. hate is just totally overreacting on the part of parents.

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I wouldn't let my oldest (almost 11) daughter read these books due to the bad grammer and puncuation. (I was an Enlgish major.'Nuff said!) She never really cared. However, my youngest, who is six, has been reading for a while now, albeit reluctantly...and she found one in the library. I am very 'pro-reading', free speech, blah blah blah, so what's a mom to do? She seems to really enjoy Junie, and so I've let it pass. For now.

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I cannot understand the banning of any book for any reason. If you as a parent don't like it, then don't buy it!!! If the school you send your kids to teaches whole learning, and you don't like it, send them somewhere else. If other parents don't agree it is NOT your problem. I firmly believe in doing what you think is right, and that includes the way you teach your children. What I don't agree with is insisting that everyone else also do it your way, and that's why I don't like banning things, unless it's a safety concern. As SKL said before me:

"I have to admit that if I had to choose between my kid reading a poorly-written book versus not reading at all, I'd choose the crappy book."

I agree!

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@ M4Mommy
"Sorry, but I just do not, can not and will not allow "creative" spelling *insert comma* etc *insert period for abbreviation and comma* in my house. No way, no how *sentence fragment*.

Even when I am on IM (instant messenger)*insert comma* I do not shorten things or miss spell *misspell* them to "be quick *insert period*"

*capitalize the T* things like what Karen posted annoy the freaking shit out of me and I seriously do not see why "proper" spelling and grammar can not *cannot* be taught now like it was when I was a student in elementary school.

Crap like this is a reason why American students are falling behind and are lazy. Oh, that and the fact that most parents don*insert apostrophe*t give a rat*insert apostrophe*s ass *sentence fragment*. Mainly because they can*insert apostrophe*t read, speak or spell correctly themselves *sentence fragment*.

You get back what you put into it folks. That shit is what is going to ruin this country *insert period*"

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As a teacher of 3rd graders, I can't believe that people would try to get the books ban from schools, I have taught grades PreK all the way to 5th grade and if kids are reading let them read. As a teacher my kids love when I read an excerpt from Junie B. Jones before I teach a grammar lesson or spelling lesson. I scan the book page and put it on the smartboard for all the kids to read along , then I read it aloud, the students have to find the error and then I do a mini-lesson on it explaining why it is incorrect etc. The books are great for those transitional readers that are not quite ready for thicker more advanced chapter books, but that still need to feel more confident than a picture book.

Every writer has their style and Junie B. Jones (the student) speaks just like students her age that is one of the things that draws kids into her books and her character.

There are so many different forms of literature that we could say are incorrect...for instance what about poetry...Shakespeare himself made up tons of words to express himself as do many other poets, so will we next be banning poetry from the classroom because they use fake words. What about Shel Silverstein? Those wacky poems that get kids so excited to learn about poetry have fake word after fake word but are perfect for teaching kids poetry.

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DeAnna. I am shocked and horrified to know that you are a 3rd grade teacher, given your inept use of grammar and basic sentence structure. If you're an example of what today's teachers exhibit in a classroom as the example to follow, then today's children really have no chance at all of getting it right.
You say that you have taught pre K to 5th grade?
I would remove my child from all your classes immediately. Bad examples to avoid:

"As a teacher of 3rd graders, I can't believe that people would try to get the books ban from schools, I have taught grades PreK all the way to 5th grade and if kids are reading let them read."

In this sentence, the proper tense is "banned" not "ban", and besides this egregious example of a run on sentence (ever heard of those?), you need to relearn correct punctuation to figure out where the commas should go.

"....so will we next be banning poetry from the classroom because they use fake words."

Umm...a question is usually puctuated at its' end with a question mark. Just a well learned bit of knowledge that you might want to make a note of.
You might also want to take a refresher course on the finer points of English grammar, especially since you are a teacher.

This is scary. How can the children learn if the teachers don't even know the proper format of the written word themselves?

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"Umm...a question is usually puctuated at its' end with a question mark."

Yes, and 'puctuated' is usually spelled "punctuated"! Sorry, but if you are going to jump on here and slam someone for incorrect spelling and grammar, please edit and proofread your own work! It just makes you look foolish!

As far as what this thread is really about, I think that there will always be some book or author (usually one that's popular at the time) that parents will have an issue with. I think it's ridiculous to ban books. As a parent, you should be informed as to what books, authors, etc. are geared toward your child's age-group. Familiarize yourself with what is being read and discuss it with your child. There will probably come a time when your child is reading or being exposed to something you may not feel comfortable with for whatever reason. Use it as a learning experience for your child. If you really have a concern, then discuss it (rationally!) with your child's teacher.

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Also, to both of the above: There is no such word as " ITS' " -- so there. There is "its," which is the possessive form, and "it's," which is the contraction for "it is." But never, ever should an apostrophe appear after "its."

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Unless your at your "wits' end."

Apparently the last couple of generations are in no position to criticize the current one for its grammar and spelling shortcomings.

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you're, not your . . . can it be contagious?

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