High school students walk out on pledge

Hey Jason, what do mean by Wayne's World?? I never saw it.

Reply

I refuse to say it for various reasons- the "under God" bit, because I don't believe that I'm under a God, but mostly because it's propaganda. When I was in kindergarten, I had no idea what it meant. My fourth grade teacher was from England, and never said it as a kid, so she never thought to have us say it. After she broke the habit, I never said it again. I will stand and face the flag with the class, but I don't say it. I've had teachers who get mad at me for it, but I refuse.

The way I see it, the only reason I am an American citizen is because I was born here. I didn't choose this country, and until I am living here because I honestly believe it is the best place for me to live, I won't say it.

Reply

Joy -

The formula - asserting something, not

I am not a fan of pledges of allegiance of any kind, or under god, but frankly, I really could care less. Posting two comments on it is probably putting too much energy in it.

I agree we all spend way to much energy fight symbolic fights.

But following up from a different post yesterday, I think it is wrong for non believers to express contempt or think they are intellectually superior to believers. I am a non believer, my dad is. He is a great guy (Imho). I don't think I am better, smarter than him.

However, the whole if you find god you wouldn't be so hateful is messed up. I have an opinion, I am not hateful.

Reply

Courtney, wow.
Your rant was so filled with vitriol. That's not a good way to convince others of your good old God-loving point of view. If you do not like the USA then leave? It was a discussion about the wording of the pledge, not about not loving this country. Also, I'd wager that most of us who are offended by the "under God" thing aren't big Lee Greenwood fans, and I don't know anyone who would compare that song to the pledge in national significance.

Personally, I love the pledge the high school students wrote and the constitution that protects their right to have written it and my right to express this opinion.

Joy, I understand what you are saying about tradition and togetherness, but I think that we would have the same thing without "under God" in the pledge. As has been pointed out, the pledge we said as children was different from that said by our grandparents in that those words were not included in theirs.

Reply

Courtney, it's pretty hard to take an incoherent unedited tirade like yours seriously. I have put much thought into my feelings on patriotism and the Pledge of Allegiance and much care into the words I choose to communicate that. I feel like reciting the pledge is a mindless chore for many people--especially my students in the public school I teach in. I am thankful that my state does not require a daily recitation of the pledge in classrooms. I don't feel comfortable training children to make a pledge to anything they don't fully understand. I can barely get them to pledge to be nice to each other all the time! The Pledge of Allegiance is too abstract and meaningless to a child's mind.

Reply

SKL- I love your comments on about everything haha!


I agree that if you don't WANT to say 'under God' then don't. Who gives a crap if you don't want to say it? No one is holding you down threatening your life to say the dang words. The way the country is right now, it's hard to feel all patriotic, but you have to look at the people, not the government and whatever regulations and such they make into laws. Why do we need some ammended everytime someone is unhappy?

Someone mentioned the language thing. I don't remember which president it was, but he was talking about how in America people must learn to speak English because that is our language. Why are we needing so many translators and having to deal with people almost daily that still can't speak any better than a 3 year old?

That was a little off topic, but it's just irritating that we are conforming to everyone's little pet peeves. This is truley a useless debate.

Reply

I wonder how many know that Francis Bellamy, in addition to being a Baptist minister, was also a "Christian" Socialist, whatever that meant at the time.

On a scale of one to ten of issues that concern me enough to wage a campaign, the Pledge (with or without those two words) is down at about number 2 or 3.

I was a high school junior when those words were added. We were doing a "voluntary" prayer each morning as well.

My personal beliefs shouldn't matter but, for the record, I do believe in a higher power of my understanding. Mine, not the government's. I consider myself a Christian. I don't need to show my piety (or lack thereof) in public.

I remember rattling off both the Pledge and the Prayer without ever listening to the words. Something repeated every day loses what meaning it may have had.

I remember as well how "voluntary" it was. We stood in our classroom, heads bowed, or hands over our hearts as we chanted in unison. I can imagine what would happen to a student who deviated from that norm.

I agree with the last part of SKL's comment. We would be far better served if we spent less time wrangling and more time teaching civics. Learning what a "republic" is, what "allegiance" is, and what "liberty and justice for all" means is far more important than to pledge or not pledge.

I'd probably eliminate anything that has turned into dogma but, as I said earlier, I'll save my energy for larger issues.

Reply

children won't understand the students' pledge either--we do this together to show our respect and loyalty also our unity---children need to repeat any learning activity many times before they really learn---look at sesame st or any other kids program--once you are out of school do you say the pledge daily--i doubt it---we need to stop letting children who have no life experience yet led us which is what i feel some adults allow them to do--schools today give students -high school--to much say in everything---if you want to take "under GOD" out do it because church and govt. should be separate--to me i see nothing religious about it in the pledge--leave the pledge alone

Reply

We all sometimes make concessions to tradition because we understand that the mere utterance of something doesn't enslave us to a specific belief, or render our own belief system moot.

But that has changed in today's brave new world of egomaniacal liberal thinking, where the individual is most important. If it wasn't "under God," it would be something else, perhaps the mere act of pledging allegiance to a greater entity (a country).

I suggest if you don't want to say "Under God," simply don't say them. Just like you all tell us if we don't like to hear Sally Field whine about war, we can change the channel.

Reply

I understand our country is not entirely perfect, like all other countries it has its ups and downs. UNLIKE other countries we have better opportunities such as education ( although people complain when taxes are raised or schools keep asking for funding to support schools) we have a so called health system(think of public aide to millions of children here who are able to go to the doctors and dentist and aren’t dying from aids or malaria) we can walk out side and not worry about bombs or military gorillas killing us, we can drink our water, we can even have a debate on religion and not die from our beliefs.

If people took more pride in the country we have such as teaching our children that saying the pledge regardless of “ under god” or “one Nation”, instead of bitching and complaining when monkeys like Bush and zoo pals who have had a helping hand in destroying our peoples respect for our country, REALIZE OUR COUNTRY HAS GREAT HISTORY, LOOK AT WHAT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED THROUGH TIME and look at what will happen again if we don’t teach THE AMERICAN DREAM WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO FREEDOM AND WITH THAT TEACHING OUR FUTURE HOLDERS RESPECT AND HONOR PLEDGING THEMSELVES TO REMEMBER WHAT HAS BEEN ACCOMPLISHED AND WHAT CAN BE ACCOMPLISHED, because if we don’t ignorance will always rule the world……..

Reply

I disapprove of your caps loc, but I will defend to the death your right to use it.

Reply

I propose that we change it to "one nation under Satan" and no one recite that part. That way it will be fair and equal to everyone.

Reply

everyday and every year its going to get worse and worse...kids take in " freedom "...very strongly and basically, they feel that they don't have to listen to the pledge.....i can go on and on about america.....and its crapy president.....but hey, if you live in america ...you are not aloud to degrade your president nor your country.i think it should be against the law.....or if you have a major problem with the government...move the hell out...thats what i did..i moved the hell out..i moved to spain....life is good here...you don't have an idiot for a president, and shit doesn't happen in my little pueblo....i am a prous american, but a prous american 15 years ago...not a prous american now...when i listen to the national anthem..its a bunch a crap.....c'mon...the land of the freee........c'mon, if oyu have no money...you have no say in your country......so please....amercia is so 15-20 years ago

Reply

Screw the pledge, I'm in school, I don't say it, and I don't plan to, I don't believe in God, and government sucks, so I'm don't plan to pledge anything to them.(I'm sort of anarchist.)If anyone attempts to make me say the pledge, I'll give them a whole lot of crap for it.

Reply

Quite interesting that OUR COUNTRY would ban religion from schools, yet still say "under GOD" in the pledge of allegience. I, as well, do not have a problem that portion of the allegience. I have instructed my children not recite it because they are pledging to our country, not GOD. Just because the word "GOD" is in it, surely does NOT mean we are saying we believe in GOD in any way, shape or form. I also would not instruct my children to walk out on it, as it is quite disrepectful. They are instructed to remain respectful to others opinions whether agreed upon or not, we all have them. "If you want to see why a child acts the way he does, follow them home".
SKL COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER

Reply

What a shame that our country has come to this. The pledge is tradition. The USA was founded by the puritians (pligrims) from England so that may worship, (dare I say it?) God in their own way. That's the it was. I get such a headache lately, never knowning who is going to get offended. Seems like everyone has got a grip. Everyone seems to have a sense of entitlement. Be gratful for what you have and stop complaining.

Reply

Forget the words for a moment and just look at the actions. Fifty kids up and walked out on a school function? Because they felt offended???

They have the right to stand silently or sit silently or even plug their own ears if they want to.

THEY DO NOT have the right to get up and walk out of scheduled school functions just because they feel offended.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I never found anything in the Constitution which guarantees the right not to be offended.

I'd suspend each of their sorry butts for at least three days and then request that their parents teach them how to file a grievance or write a letter to the editor.

Have a nice day!

Reply