Pullman writes a good adventure story, which underneath
really it's more anti-religion and anti-monotheism then
specifically anti-church or anti-christianity. Writing this
for young people, as the books were intended, to make them actually
think about a deep subject like this - is where the criticism lies.

There has been a lot of talk in sci-fi/fantasy circles about this.
They did indeed have to water down that aspect of the story, changing
some key elements actually. It's too bad, because the books are
amazing stories that cause the reader to think about the nature of
religion and its role in our society. However, I do think that the way it is supposedly watered down should alleviate concerns parents have. Let's not judge this too much before the reviews are out though.

The hype that is already created is actually going to cause more people to see the film.

--*Rob

Reply

All these people urging boycotts, etc, really fry my brain. I mean, God forbid we should actually allow our children to think for themselves. Or that we should use viewing a controversial film together as a teaching moment to explain how our family's beliefs are different from the author/director's. I strongly believe in faith and religion. What I can't stand is dogmatic, rigid thinking. You don't fight for what you believe by ignoring opposing views and hoping they go away. You confront them, question them, debate them. How can you do that if you don't examine the source material? Sheesh. I could rant for hours about this, but I think I've gotten the gist of it down.

Reply

I just finished reading The Golden Compass. It takes place in a parallel universe. The bad guys work for a covert organization within the church that's been kidnapping children. It also talks about the church trying to squash a scientific discovery that conflicts with its world-view.

I haven't read the rest of the trilogy yet, but The Golden Compass is not anti-Christian. The bad guys are bad because they're stealing children (and doing terrible things to them) and they're standing in the way of science - not because of their religious beliefs.

Reply

I read the entire series in College, and I found them to be wonderful stories. I don't remember them being resoundingly anti-Christian, but then again I wasn't looking for that aspect of them. I think that this is probably another case of people having too much time on their hands that this is all they can think of to complain about.
Oh, and I am Christian, I married the pastor's son.

Reply

I keep hearing that the children kill God, or the character that symbolizes God, at the end of the movie. I haven't found anything either confirming or denying this. Can someone who might know please fill me in?

Reply

I don't think there's anything wrong with telling people up front that this movie/series has an "anti-religion" message, just like I see nothing wrong with revealing the symbolism in the Narnia series.

What bugs me is when we look at movies ('An Inconvenient Truth', 'Supersize Me') and say "that's absolute, undiluted truth" and shout down anyone who disagrees with them. I submit that these movies are far more damaging to our kids, because they're being shown as fact, in the schools, without their parents around to put them in perspective. The "Compass" series is not likely to be shown in that context (as truth, as opposed to a fictional story), and kids are more likely to see them with their parents, so any questions that arise will (hopefully) prompt a discussion, and further understanding.

Reply

Rayonna... there quote by the author here, at Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/compass.asp.
According to Snopes, the quote from the author that appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald says, "My books are about killing God."

Perhaps if you start there, you can find more information.

Good luck.

Reply

I knew it was just a matter of time before this showed up here. I find the whole thing just ridiculous. I read the Narnia books before I ever knew about the symbolism, or anything about C.S. Lewis as a man. I loved them. And after I knew about the symbolism in the books, I still loved them. I would not hesitate to give them to my children to read, and we could discuss them afterwards (but I wouldn't tell them anything about the symbolism before hand).
I also enjoyed the Pullman books, and I wouldn't hesitate to let my kids read those either. I read them before I heard anything about Pullman's beliefs either. I don't think they are particularly anti-Christian, just perhaps anti-establismentarianist (is that a word?).
Both the Lewis and Pullman books are great adventures and good stories. There is a lot to be learned from both of them.
And if it matters, I'm Jewish.

Reply

Rayonna: well it's KIND of true. This contains spoilers, for anyone who's not interested in knowing the end. The two main grown-ups in the books, who are ambiguous morally, both start out as sort of "bad guys" and in the end seem to have reformed somewhat. For one of them, the goal of everything in the story is to kill God. Lyra, the main character, initially sets off to stop him, but loses that goal by the end, she ends up wanting to find forgiveness for getting her friend Roger killed. Lyra and Will set off to do this, and on the way, by coincidence, they come across "God" imprisoned in a sort of crystal cage. They release him, feeling sorry for him, and when they do the wind breaks him apart and spreads him into everything... sorta Buddhist. It's actually a nice scene, but I suppose if you're a Christian reading it, you'd have to ignore the fact that "God" in this story is pictured as a senile, frail old thing- not the all knowing deity. It's a great story, but I can understand how people would call it anti-religious. There's far more legitimacy to this outcry than the claims that Harry Potter is satanic.

Reply

BTW, that's in the Amber Spyglass (book 3), not the Golden Compass (book 1), so it shouldn't happen at the end of this movie.

Reply

I shouldn't have read these comments, I'm reading the first book now and would have preferred not to know anything about how it turns out. My fault for reading here, I know!


Enjoying it anyway, he's a good story teller.

Reply

I'm a children's librarian and His Dark Materials happens to be among my favorite books (although I'd say they were more for young adults than children). That said, yes, they are critical of religion. One might even say anti-religion. But so what? Kids deserve a variety of viewpoints and they come from a variety of backgrounds--many parents are not into the whole organized religion thing either.

I've often wondered why these books got so little attention from the far-right censors, especially since the relatively tame Harry Potter books came under such fire. I always assumed Pullman's books were just too darn literary for the would-be censors to plow through, but since the movie is coming out, I guess they've gotten a cinematic version of Cliff's Notes!

Reply

Rayonna,

I would suggest reading this article:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2007/11/25/god_in_the_dust/

It does a good job of sorting fact from fiction and takes the time to explain the controversy.

Reply

Well, I doubt the young kids will really get the symbolism, and if they do, they have brains and can process it. The fact that we allow them to read a book does not mean they will think the author's viewpoint is THE right one. If that were the case, I ought to be a racist through and through because I was encouraged (by my liberal educators among others) to read Huckleberry Finn, etc.

My nephew (age 11) is reading this series and I'm getting him two of the books for Christmas. I am not the least bit worried that he is too stupid to recognize that the author is a human being with his own unique views, to which he is entitled, just like my nephew is entitled to think they are wrong.

Reply

I've never understood why people believe it's dangerous to allow their children to be exposed to viewpoints that are different, or even in direct opposition of their own. If you're raising your child with what you believe, and you really believe in it wholeheartedly, then you're doing what you think is right. Allowing them to realize that there are other opinions actually can strengthen their own belief system and cement for them what it is that *they*, as individuals, believe. Maybe people are afraid that if their child knows there are more views than what they were raised with they will become confused or turn away...I think it would be far worse to live to adulthood not knowing that there are people who disagree with my belief system, and to be shocked later in the real adult world.
That being said, I noticed Aslan was a God-like or Jesus-like figure, and could care less. I doubt a 10 or 12 year old will care either. I don't know about these books though, but you've got me interested!

Reply

I am really pleased to see the way this discussion has been going, as I also read the books in college (as a Literature for Adolescents class, I think that is a more appropriate age group). Yes, the author is an active Atheist and has been quoted saying some really dumb and hateful things. But his books are really well done!! I truly enjoyed them, and thought the whole "Dust" concept was really cool, and wanted my own Daemon too... :)

Reply

"The bad guys work for a covert organization within the church that's been kidnapping children."

So remind me Caelligh how that's not anti-christian. You do realise this "the church" thing refers to the universal congregation of christians?

Similarly the blogger, Roger S, says "It's based on a great children's book that happens to be written by an atheist.". Well that's a blatant lie.

I couldn't really care less if it's anti-church. The church needs introspection to discover sin after all. What really riles me is people saying it's not atheist/antiestablishment when it is.

If you believe it, stand by it. If you don't, critique it.

Reply

I could care less if it was written by an atheist. My big problem with the movie is the advertising on it. If it is being promoted to children, why would they show per-veiws for it before it was rated? I mean really....When watching the pre-view and thinking hey that would be a neat movie for the kids and then hear "this movie has not yet been rated..." doesn't that make anything stop and think???

and by the way, I didn't know this was a movie from a book series till my husband told me. Nor did I realize that nardia was a book series...

Reply

If they think this is bad, I'd hate to see what they'd think of the anime/manga "Angel Sanctuary". Then again, that one is not and never has been for children. Though some of my anime nerd friends who happen to be Christian still like it, mainly because they realize that it's just a work of fiction and meant to be viewed with an open mind.

Reply