Who teaches our kids violence, then?

I don't think, at Nolan's age, it's "violence" so much as "testing". He probably does other things to test you, as well, like throwing things or doing something again after you've told him "no" sixteen times. But the hitting happens to be a hot button with you. And he's figured it out - not because he's voilent, but because that's the one that makes you react. And once he gets a reaction out of you, it's one more button that he knows to push.

The "violence" comes as they get older - the hitting isn't rewarded with swift punishment, and then it's combined with glorification in the form of video games, cartoons/tv shows, and even rewards from parents for violence. "Boys will be Boys" is commonly heard when little boys wrestle, fight, etc., but if little girls do the same thing, they get busted. Boys, especially, are taught that violent = tough, macho, etc., and the concept of "turning the other cheek" garners the title of 'wimp', 'baby', etc. Then it goes from there...

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It seems to be a natural part of growing up. Parents cannot escape it by ignoring it. It is a part of the process of teaching children to have impulse control. Just because you think a thing or feel a thing does not mean that it should impact your behavior. I heard a wise parent say to a 5-year-old boy who had just hit his sister because she broke his favorite toy: "I can understand why breaking your toy would make you angry but that is not an excuse for hitting your sister. How do you use your words to tell us how you feel instead?"

Feelings that are expressed and dealt with are less likely to come out in behavior. Feelings that are supressed or not identified eventually come out as a kind of emotional vomit that certainly can be translated into any kind of inappropriate behavior.

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I tend to agree with LS. My two, seven year old grandchildren are "testing" things now. It's more of a "eat your supper", "I don't want to" kind of thing. Here's another question, why do kids want to "hit your hot button?" I never wanted to hit my mothers. Boy, that was the last thing I wanted to do......tick her off! Why do kids seem to want to make us mad? What's the enjoyment of making "Mom" mad?? I've often wondered this.

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I sometimes wonder if some of it, especially with boys, is inherent. I tell the story often of my son attending preschool at the local church and kids who were never exposed to violence like you described were picking up sticks and playing "army." Most of these kids had never seen any movies, television or video games and they still had to be reprimanded for pointing sticks at each other, pretending to shoot their classmates. I think that's more than impulsivity, and I've always been curious about this issue, too.

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Maybe it'd be good if you define violence. Violence where others are hurt badly is taught, violence in little kids is natural and part of what they're born with. If you allow little kids to interact with one another around age 2-3 they will hit each other and bite and kick but they also learn what the response will be from their peers. Kids allowed to learn (I mean without the input of adults on kid-kid violence) about the effects of their actions realize that they will not have friends if they behave that way, and that there are limits.

But that's assuming there is no violence at home teaching the child that violence is an acceptable part of life. Babies (I mean under 3s) really don't understand that what they are doing when they hit or kick or bite does to another person, it is violent but not violence in the intention of hurting someone. Now violence in the intent of hurting is something else entirely and only thrives when the child is allowed to act in that manner and there are rewards - whether its attention, status, or mimicry of adults.

How do I know? Watching kids, volunteering at a women's shelter, working with teens with violent familial background, and learned it from my mother who is a guru on teaching parenting to violent parents (she's Adlerian). If you watch kids enough you will see that its natural for them to behave as yours has, the trick is not to reward that behavior with attention or allowing it continue.

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It's an interesting thought, that they are testing.

How about another way of looking at it. Could they be asking their parents for some limits?

It is my observation, after several decades of intensive observation and study of children, that children whose parents provide appropriate and consistent discipline, i.e., set and enforce real limits, rarely if ever hit. And even if they occasionally will hit a sibling in a moment of frustration, it is extremely rare to see them ever hit their parents or outsiders. If hitting is a "test," I guess this means well-disciplined children are comfortable with their understanding of their limits.

I think in the past several decades, there has been so much discussion of all the horrible things that people think will happen if they impose limits on their kids, many are afraid and try to let the children set the limits themselves. Some children naturally observe socially acceptable and healthy limits, so that is fine for them. But for many others, this is a recipe for disaster.

We don't decide our child's diets by watching to see what they choose to eat, e.g., the dog food or chocolate or the price tag they found while crawling on the floor. We don't decide how thick their coat should be based on what they would prefer to wear. And when it comes to our children's safety and health, we don't insist on making them understand our decisions before we carry them out. Why, then, do so many people give their children so much leeway with respect to discipline, or insist that if a child can't comprehend the set limits or consequences, the parent must not enforce them?

I think enough time has passed with parents experimenting with permissiveness that we can conclude it does not increase the chance that our kids will be happy, healthy, safe, or socially adept. Parents need to get back to giving their kids the discipline they need - "strict" is not a four-letter word.

As far as spanking, if it feels OK to you, I would say don't be afraid of it. It probably the clearest, most efficient mode of discipline for young children. If you are not comfortable with it, don't do it - no point feeling guilty or worrying, as your child will pick up on that - but find something else that shows you mean business. Warn with the first offense, punish with the second (if the child is not too young to have remembered the warning - and give your kids some credit here). Be consistent. Don't bother with a discipline method you can't or won't follow through with pretty much every time.

Discipline is serious business. Cuteness is very, very temporary. Please help your child to understand what he needs to do to get along in the world. It seems to me that he is begging you to do this.

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I agree with above posters that hitting and biting as a baby/toddler aren't really considered "violence". These are natural milestones that all (?) mammals have--the lion cub biting mama's ear comes to mind as a perfect non-human example. It's about exploring the world around you. It's about action and reaction. Not violence.

Violence, I would say, beyond the normal reactions to protect yourself, is learned. There is, obviously, and inherent fight or flight response to danger that can result in violence. Beyond that, in my opinion, any violence is environmentally created.

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Really great conversation, btw, kristin

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My son was 6 months old when he started biting and hitting. He first started biting when he was excited but then switched to biting when he was mad. There is no way he learned to bite or hit from anyone since he had not ever watched anyone do it. I believe it is instinct in some babies and toddlers, like crying, yelling, and other ways they get try to get their point across.

Not all babies have the same temperment or the same reactions. Perhaps it is a girl/boy difference some of the time. My daughter never hit, bit or kicked until her baby brother taught her how!

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Way to complicate it all...

Humans are just animals with clothes. We have the same instincts as anything else on the planet, and that is to attack something that's bothering us.

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