The China Study and its impact on the family table

I read this, too, and got all worked up, and was ready to go mostly vegan. Couldn't get my husband on board, though.

And then I thought more about it, and decided to just stick with moderation. We limit meat and dairy (and only use eggs for baking, which isn't very often), but I can't imagine a life without cheese. Really, on a typical day, cheese is our main animal product, and I've been trying to limit it to one serving a day. (And maybe a teaspoon of butter in oatmeal, which I could probably cut out too.)

We go through phases of more - when traveling it's hard to find choices that don't have meat and/or dairy - but we keep it to a minimum.

And I believe that eating a varied diet with lots of fruits and vegetables is what is most important, and that if you keep it to a minimum with meat and dairy, the difference is probably pretty small. Telling people they can never have anything again - whether it's a cheeseburger, a chocolate bar, even a cigarette (if I told myself I could NEVER have another one I don't think I ever would have even been able to cut back, but saying an occasional cig is okay left me able to basically quit), is too restrictive and ineffective, imo.

But good luck! It's certainly better for your health and the planet to limit the consumption of animal products. Keep us posted!

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Personally, I never trust "amazing data" that will change my life that has been published as a book. No matter how supposedly respected and intelligent the writer/researcher is.

Everyone has views that they will seek out supporting evidence for. How many diets have been out that were designed by someone famous and respected? More than could be counted.

I completely respect your decision change your diet, unless it`s something that is nutritionally dangerous. But I wouldn`t base that change on an "amazing book".

Personally, I do indeed think it`s at least partially bunk. Why? Because I have lived in Japan, eating an almost vegetarian diet. (well, maybe not quite that far, we do eat meat on occasion.) Red meat maybe once every 3 months, if that. Pork is maybe once every two weeks, and chicken maybe once a week. All free range, "organic" meat delivered to our door fresh from the farm. The rest of the time we eat just rice, vegetables and some fish every couple of days - all in small portions as I very rarely feel hungry.

And yet, despite 10 years of this supposedly wonderful diet, I am still overweight. The only fluctuation I had in my weight was when I had my son. It went down at first, shot up around 20 lbs, and then went back down to pre-pregnancy levels a month or so later. No particular effort on my part.
If I eat sweets, my weight goes up. If I don`t eat them, it doesn`t change. I`ve found a good balance of eating things that don`t send my weight up, and despite the fact that I`m not a model I`m happy at this weight point.

I have come to put a lot of faith in the genetic factors, as all the women in my family are around the same weight and build, regardless of their eating habits. My husband`s family (Japanese) on the other hand, eats more than 3 times the amount (of the exact same foods) I do, do less physically, but are as thin as rails. From the brief description, this study appears to be comparing races and genetic pools as much as it is diet.

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I apologize if this is a double post, I tried posting about 10 minutes ago, but it timed out and the comment never showed up)

Personally, I never trust "amazing data" that will change my life that has been published as a book. No matter how supposedly respected and intelligent the writer/researcher is.

Everyone has views that they will seek out supporting evidence for. How many diets have been out that were designed by someone famous and respected? More than could be counted.

I completely respect your decision change your diet, unless it`s something that is nutritionally dangerous. But I wouldn`t base that change on an "amazing book".

Personally, I do indeed think it`s at least partially bunk. Why? Because I have lived in Japan, eating an almost vegetarian diet. (well, maybe not quite that far, we do eat meat on occasion.) Red meat maybe once every 3 months, if that. Pork is maybe once every two weeks, and chicken maybe once a week. All free range, "organic" meat delivered to our door fresh from the farm. The rest of the time we eat just rice, vegetables and some fish every couple of days - all in small portions as I very rarely feel hungry.

And yet, despite 10 years of this supposedly wonderful diet, I am still overweight. The only fluctuation I had in my weight was when I had my son. It went down at first, shot up around 20 lbs, and then went back down to pre-pregnancy levels a month or so later. No particular effort on my part.
If I eat sweets, my weight goes up. If I don`t eat them, it doesn`t change. I`ve found a good balance of eating things that don`t send my weight up, and despite the fact that I`m not a model I`m happy at this weight point.

I have come to put a lot of faith in the genetic factors, as all the women in my family are around the same weight and build, regardless of their eating habits. My husband`s family (Japanese) on the other hand, eats more than 3 times the amount (of the exact same foods) I do, do less physically, but are as thin as rails. From the brief description, this study appears to be comparing races and genetic pools as much as it is diet.

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The news that the Dairy Industry may have its own self-interests at heart is "startling"?

Sheesh. I've known that since I was a kid.

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I have not read the book and don't intend to, as I rarely read books about someone's ideas about diet. I read ongoing research results, observe trends I see around me, study ancient and tried-and-true beliefs from various cultures, and observe what works for me and my family.

It would take an awful lot to convince me that milk is unhealthy per se. It can be for some people, and some ethnic groups happen to include more milk-sensitive people than others (though this could be the result of other cultural food habits, such as eating spicy food or cutting out milk at an early age, rather than genetics). But I strongly believe that milk is a superfood, based on a considerable amount of data that I have gathered from the sources mentioned above.

Remember that there were decades when scientists and doctors taught mothers that breast milk was substandard - and in developing countries, many babies literally died as a result of marketing of forumula based on this erroneous information. That's an extreme example, but there are many similar ones. How long have they been trying to convince us that coffee is unhealthy per se? Only recently have the scientists started to catch up with what regular folks have known for hundreds, maybe thousands of years - it's very healthy for most people! Then there's alcohol - the current views range from "it's always bad" to "it's unhealthy to skip it." I will stick with a combination of "all things do in moderation" and what I've observed feels best to me.

Respecting meat, I believe it is healthy in moderation, but most Americans (and I mean the whole hemisphere) have a confused idea of what "moderation" is. On average, we eat multiple times what is healthy given our activity levels. I think more research and education is needed in this respect. A meat-free diet is also a valid choice, particularly when based on moral considerations. Definitely a meat-free diet can be healthy, but should only be undertaken by someone who is well-educated in vegetarian nutrition. (Education includes being brought up in a historically vegetarian culture - but if one switches his diet to more "modern" items, he needs to go back to the drawing board to figure out the right nutritional balance.)

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I think the idea that we aren't designed to consume dairy products is a no-brainer, based on simple logic, without the need of any book to tell me so.

We are designed to drink our mother's milk during the first few years of life and gradually be weaned off of it, never to eat dairy again. You know, just like every other mammal on the planet. What other animal needs to go to a different species, milk it, and derive various foods from that milk, in order to have all the nutrition it needs?

Still, I don't blame people for having trouble giving up cheese - especially since it's full of opiates like morphine and codeine, much more than milk alone.

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We can't believe EVERYTHING we read. I'm sure there are some truths, but I like to hear both sides of the story. If my daughter's pediatrician says to give her milk, there must be SOMETHING good about it. I'm sure they have to learn about those sorts of things to recommend to parents. Besides, milk has been in this world's diet for HOW LONG? I think it's just fine. I bet it's better for us than all the soda out there, diet or not.

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I read this book over the summer, and it rocked my world, too. I was eating meat only very occasionally, like at holidays and such. But dairy---now that has been a staple. You know, grab a yogurt for a snack, put milk in the coffee or on oatmeal, eat grilled cheese or cheese enchiladas. But I cannot eat dairy now without feeling like I am poisoning myself. I really like Dr. Joel Fuhrman's approach to all of this (he uses the China Study to inform his patients). His approach is "Eat To Live," which is something I aspire towards.

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I'm not sure how long milk has been a part of the diet, but it has not been a part of every culture's diet. There are still vast groups of people who cannot consume dairy. I think it could be argued that the guidelines for everyone to consume dairy are even a bit racist, considering how lactose intolerance is more likely in non-white, non-European groups.

And just because a pediatrician says to do something doesn't mean it's good, healthy or right. My ped acted like I was a freak when I was still breastfeeding at 9 months. My own doctor told me it was breastfeeding that was causing my PMS. I had a ped tell me I should leave a baby to CIO (that has nothing to do with medical advice and is none of the ped's business). So just because the ped says to give milk doesn't mean that it's the best thing for a child. There are lots of other sources of calcium and protein for a child.

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Cheese is full of morphine and codeine? Absolute bunk, if you ask me. Yes, I've seen the "studies," and I don't believe that cheese is addictive.

While we are on the topic, maybe someone here who is so terribly anti-dairy and meat can explain the "French Paradox?" People in France have a very low incidence of coronary heart disease in spite of eating a diet full of yummy saturated fats (including lots of cheese).

Dairy is NOT poison, nor is meat. Not if you use a little bit of common sense and eat everything in moderation.

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Many of the commenters seem to have the wrong idea about The China Study -- it presents decades of research with minimal bias. True, writers choose which research to publish, but this is in particular about one very important study, called the China Study.

My husband and I read it just before my son was born, and he became a vegan immediately. I've been mostly vegan, I aim more for under 10% animal protein. I found this surprisingly easy, given how much I love cheese and yogurt. I still have a bit of cheese every once in a while, especially when I eat out. And baking turned out to be really not a problem! Check out Vegan with a Vengeance for some fantastic recipes for entrees and desserts.

One funny thing about The China Study is the attitude of your friends and family. Some will read it with an open mind (and generally become vegan), some will refuse to read it because they know they are likely to agree but aren't ready to change, and others say they don't need to read it cause they don't care.

Best of luck, Kristin, on your decision to go vegan! Take it slow, trust your instincts, and enjoy all the delicious food you'll be discovering!

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The China Study takes findings from rural China to support a new diet.

However (from unicef.com about nutrition defiency in children)...

"Many children and adults suffer from vitamin and mineral deficiencies and undernutrition, particularly in rural poor Western regions."

"Vitamin A deficiency, which increases child mortality and can cause blindness"

"Vitamin D deficiency has serious consequences, including increased incidence of rickets, osteoporosis, increased cancer rates, and autoimmune diseases."

Milk contains both Vitamin A and D, which could decrease the above diseases in children.

The author of The China Study is using research from a notriously nutrition deprieved part of the world to support a "healthy diet". And if milk is so bad, why do most mammals (including humans) produce milk to feed their young with milk in the crucial first months of growth?

I would remain wary until you find other research/reports done by reputable and accurate scientists backing The China Study's findings.

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You might also want to check out Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma and his new one, In Defense of Food. I find he presents the most balanced ideas on food and diet ever.

Personally, after spending lots of time in France, this is what I go by: Eat small quantities of the best quality of food you can afford. Enjoy wine and dark chocolate in moderation, savouring them. Walk whenever you can (get out of your car!). Live like you mean it.

Our quest for cheap food is what is killing us. Anyway, you can listen to this great Michael Pollan interview where he talks about his books and theories at the very bottom of this page: http://www.cbc.ca/thecurrent/2008/200801/20080109.html

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Since I drink about a quart of milk a day (not including other milk products), perhaps I should instruct my family and friends to include something on my gravestone to the effect that my life was cut short by milk poisoning. But the problem with that is that I'm so much healthier than just about anyone I know . . . so which of them is likely to outlive me? My daughters might - but then, I'm systematically poisoning them too, so who knows . . . .

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1) The Masai eat only blood, meat and milk and have no heart disease, overweight or even cellulite.

2) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724

I just have to roll my eyes at everything having to do with the "science" of nutrition anymore.

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Kristin, I have an idea for a post, which is along the lines of what you have been thinking about lately. Q: what is a healthy vegetarian or vegan diet for a toddler - assuming that breast milk is not an option? I would really like to know but so far I have been too lazy to do the research. I suspect other readers may be in the same situation. Just a thought.

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Uly, I wasn't implying that my pediatrician knows everything about nutrition, but honestly, find a pediatrician that says NOT to give post-breastfed/ post-formula babies/toddlers milk. That's what I was getting at. I was saying about sodas because most of the population here in the US drinks that, even if it's a diet soda.

I really don't think I'll be cutting out any dairy. We don't use a large portion as it is, but that's fine. I won't cut more out just because of one study.

"animal meat causes cancer" What DOESN'T show up in one report or another saying it causes cancer? Gum, additives to foods, additives in candy and drinks, mostly everything accept fresh non-pesticide fruits and vegetables.

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