I don't get it, I really don't.

If you're cleaning, and the little ones are following you around making a mess *as you clean*, why are you doing the same old thing?

I would have stopped in my tracks, stopped them, and told them they were headed for a time-out if they kept it up. And I would have meant it!

At this point, we'd all put the books on the shelves, I'd give the kids something harmless to do well away from me (though I don't really see how kids can "make a bigger mess" if they're helping clean up by bringing you all the toys so you can put them away) like crayons on paper in the kitchen table, or snacktime, or "can you put all your bears to nap? They look sleepy" (it's so scary that around here, the top favorite game is "playing naptime" when I can't convince them that real naps are fun, not for my *life*) or whatever.

Quit! Seriously, as long as u pick it up--hubby has the idea "It's okay, my loving caring wife will do it." So-don't.
He'll run around, probably get mad for a day or two (tough it out) and then when --he either asks- what's up or cries cause his life is out of order" remind him --wife, partner--not mother.

Isis - I've tried that. I couldn't find my kitchen counter after a week. The piles grow and grow and grow, and drive me insane, and he doesn't even notice.

I've started putting all his crap in a giant pile on his desk in the office, and then I shut the door. That way, I don't have to look at it, and he can deal with it if/when he feels like it.

The first thing he does when he comes in is dump an armload of stuff on the kitchen counter or the table. It just starts our whole evening on a bad note. Maybe I'll start picking it up and immediately taking it to the office to dump on his desk. Wonder if he'd get the message then...

Thanks for the advice!

Put it in a trash bag for added effect -- I honestly do not have this concern (military husband) but my sister did-- Occassionally, she will put a trash bag on the table just to remind him. The other thing she finally did --cut him off--she was cranky, boy was she cranky but when he finally asked her what's up--she said she wouldn't be too tired if he stepped up. That was not fun for anyone...

As far as the husband goes, you could try leaving his things in the basket for him to sort out.
Mine thinks folding his dirty socks together before tossing them under the coffee table is helpful ;]
You could also try "hiding" his things and giggling while he looks for them. :0

I like the hiding idea..I'll have to share.

We didn't start out with just "Do this, do that", you know.

We started out with tricks, because that's what adults do - we find ways to help kids learn to be adults one day.

So we got a timer, we set it for 20 minutes, and we'd say that if we were done before the timer went off, we'd have time to play a game or read a book. We played clean-up tag - turning off the light and shining a flashlight on the various things that needed to be put away (including, for the ultimate in silly, occasional flashes on the kids our ourselves or the table, or that sort of thing). We raced - "Can you pick up more books than I can? Can you get all the dolls up before I finish singing baa baa black sheep?". We've cleaned up while jumping up and down (whew!), we've cleaned up by first pretending we were eating everything on the floor (dinosaurs, y'know), we've cleaned up by picking up only red things, or orange things, or only things that start with a buh buh buh sound. We've played the silly game ("Does this doll go in the sink? I think dolls belong in the sink. I'll put the doll in the sink. What's that? It doesn't go there? Oh. Can you put it where it goes?" This game is even more fun when you periodically change the name of certain nouns to elephant)

And yes, sometimes they've had to get time-outs. And yes, sometimes I've had to take toys away. And yes, once I threw out every last stinking crayon in the house, in front of her and her mother (with my sister's permission), because she *would* insist on throwing them all on the floor and not picking them up.

But their parents didn't give up, and I didn't give up, and they grew, and they changed.

And this is how children learn. They're four, and two, and they don't "help" me. They are an actual help, and I do not know what I'd do without them! (Though I suppose it would be no problem to pick up their toys if they weren't here to play with them in the first place... an interesting idea if I ever had one.)

Not to judge--but I noticed "she is told many times"..maybe that is part of it. @ her age, once should be enough--twice if you are just starting having her do it, maybe--

I do not tell my children more than once to do anything. We started we minor redirection and some reminding, but by 3-no way.

The daycare may be limited by law, but most kids in school do not get told twice--they go to the ofc.

Just a observation-my children are fairly spirited, and they did and will continue to push boundaries-"all kids do" but with consistency, they do learn.

No, but I've been watching them every day since the older one was two, and the little one not yet born.

Guess what? Punishing a toddler with a time-out *works*. And you know how I know?

Because I have two little nieces who clean up once a day, and I don't have to spend the day as their personal servant.

And we don't have handprints everywhere either. They have their own little spraybottles, with some vinegar and water in them, and they clean up after themselves. (Or spray water in fights - this is a supervised activity, you must understand.)

This isn't actually as difficult as you all make it out to be.

It's not that they're exceptionally obedient kids, either - try that line on me while the older one is telling me she'd like to poo on my bed and eat it (yeah... I didn't get it either) because I wouldn't let her hit her sister and get away with it (but she's fair - when her sister hits her, she'll deny it so that the little one doesn't get her own time-out. Sweet, if very misguided). It's just that we're all of us - mom, dad, and me - consistent with our expectations and rules. Leave your toys out - their time out will be longer than yours. And every day they clean up, even if it takes them ten, twenty times as long as it takes us.

You're right - they won't be kids forever. And for sure I don't want to be the one responsible for letting a pair of overgrown toddlers out in the world when they're eighteen.

Woah - my toddler takes time outs. We started when she was 12 months old. Sometimes she even gives herself time outs when she needs them (seriously). She also gives her little sister time outs, which is hilarious. Please read my post about how to do timeout right - http://prettybabies.blogspot.com/2007/07/wfmw-how-to-do-time-outs-correctly.html

It is very effective, when done properly.

As for cleaning, you really have to manage your expectations. Your house isn't going to be ready for the Architectural Digest photo crew to come in at a moment's notice until your kids are in college. That just IS. I think the parents who are successful at this cleaning business are the ones who combine all of the tips, tricks, and methods above. (Especially doing it once or twice a day, and not worrying about it otherwise).

My daughter helps. She's still at an age (2.5) where she LIKES to help. Just this morning, I was vacuuming and she was dusting the baseboards. Are they perfect? Heck no, but it's better than no help at all, and it's setting a great precedent. She can throw Legos in a bin. She can put the silverware in the dishwasher.

If you do everything for them when they're little - they'll turn out like MY HUSBAND (see above)! So don't!! :)

Why not? That is better than knocking them around, or ignoring the negative behavior.