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Old men: creepy or nice?
Filed under: Health & Safety: Babies
I had a bizarre experience a a few weekends ago. One that I've been contemplating and wondering about ever since. We had headed downtown and decided to grab lunch at our favourite department store cafeteria. After lunch, my husband went to the bathroom quickly while I waited by the escalator with the kids. Suddenly, a security guard appeared out of nowhere. He shot me a quick grin and headed straight for my kids."Hi! Who are you?" he asked Nate, a little too excitedly. I was instantly creeped out.
Nate looked at me to get my approval. I thought I was probably over-reacting and encouraged him to answer the man. "I'm Nate," he replied quietly.
"Hi Nate! I'm Manny!" he stuck out his hand enthusiastically to shake Nate's. "And who's this?"
"This is Lucy!" Nate can hardly contain his affection for his sister.
The man continued for another minute or two with "How old are you?" and other such seemingly innocuous questions. What made me uncomfortable was that this man was not acknowledging me at all. Most people who want to comment on your kids' cuteness tend to make a bit of small talk with you as the parent. No so with this man.
I shot him a look that said, "Shouldn't you be doing your job right now?" and he began to walk back to his post. He didn't say goodbye or anything. He just started walking away, dodging behind pillars and such to play peekaboo with Nate.
By the time Jan rejoined us, all trace of this weirdo was gone. Still I couldn't shake the creeps. Was I over-reacting? How can you tell a perv from a totally innocent admirer of children? Has all this media hype about predators heightened my awareness, or has it made me overly paranoid?
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ReaderComments (Page 1 of 2)
2-08-2008 @ 3:31PM
SKL said...I think you have to rememer where this old guy is coming from - the days when if a little child looked at you and you DIDN'T give him attention, you were a crotchety old man.
Maybe he is shy with other adults (I can relate) but still wanted to give your child some positive attention. Asking those kind of questions is exactly what every friendly stranger did when I was growing up. Everyone had to teach their kids how to answer, e.g., "how old are you?" because it was a given that every human being who crossed the kids' path would be asking those questions. Frankly, I feel conflicted nowadays when a wide-eyed child is catching my attention and I just know her parents would be creeped out if I spoke to the child. So I have to act like I could care less about the child, instead of letting her know I think she's cute and special. I feel sorry for today's kids in that respect.
I'm not sure why you feel creeped out, since this guy doesn't know who you are or where you live. And, he didn't go up to a lone child, but one who was obviously well-protected, so I am not sure why it would seem like he was hoping to try something.
On the other hand, if there was something specific about his demeanor that gave you the creeps, this could be your perceptive mommy instincts sounding the alarm.
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2-08-2008 @ 4:28PM
Scarlett said...First of all, I'm not sure why this was titled, "Old Men,....," she never does make ANY reference to the man's age. Although it does seem a bit odd that that he didn't speak to the mother at all, again, she also didn't say how far apart she was standing from her children, in which case, a SECURITY guard is supposed to do a job with many aspects. When I was about 7, my Mama & I were in a big store with a 'soda fountain' & I lost her. I went straightaway & LOOKED for & found one of these very men & said, "I can't find my Mama. Can U help me?" He asked, "Are U lost?" to which I replied,"No, I know where I am, I just can't find my Mama-SHE'S lost." He chuckled at this, but when he saw my little chin tremble, he said,"Don't worry Honey, we'll find your Mama. Wat's her name?" I told him, he got on the loudspeaker & called her name, telling her SHE was lost & I was waiting for her at the soda fountain, & of course she was there in a couple of minutes. He made me feel warm & safe & protected. He wasn't YOUNG, but he was probably about 40. In her situation, as I said, we don't have an actual picture of the scene-as to whether he saw 2 children looking as if they were waiting, came up very freindly, just to ENSURE that they weren't lost & needed help, or saw 2 potential 'victims.' In 2008, this man would have to be WELL over 100 to feel as U described it used to be-because that was in a time when the men would already BE old, & have someone point out to them that their total inattention to children made them appear crotchety, U know what I mean? But, in the end, the world is SO over-crowded now, that there are so many more murderers, rapists, robbers, & as we know, pedophiles. So I don't think we could be too over-protective out in crowds & stores,(unless, of course one went flying over whacking them with their purse like a maniac-in this situation-other situations it wouldn't be crazy at all, obviously). I believe it IS true to always follow your gut-feeling, & she said she had a creepy feeling-I wouldn't take my eyes off ANYONE who came up & began speaking to my children.
2-08-2008 @ 3:33PM
Sandy Maple said...Nadine - I think in a case like that, you should totally trust your instincts. There's an old guy who works at the grocery where we shop who creeps me out in a similar way. I will wait in a longer line just to avoid him. I can't explain it, but there is just something wrong about his over-eager interest in little kids.
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2-08-2008 @ 3:39PM
SKL said...Another thing. Maybe you didn't look like you were open to talking to a stranger, so why would the guy talk to you? (And when you gave him the "move along" look, he probably felt even less inclined to exchange pleasantries with you.) Most of the time, kids are more open to friendly strangers than adults, and I think it is perfectly normal for adults to interact with kids even if their parents are themselves stand-offish.
Another thing - would your reaction have been the same if this individual were an old woman instead of an old man?
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2-09-2008 @ 9:18AM
queenoqueens said...The question of the old woman vs. old man was one of the first things I thought about when reading this post. I would definitely feel differently if it were a woman, and this angers/saddens me.
On the news last night I saw a male daycare worker arrested for molestation. I believe every daycare molestation case I've seen involved a man. You could call it 'gender profiling', but it's hard to ignore.
The only way I find to fight this is to try to train my kids to protect themselves. It's hard to do this in a way that doesn't make them overly fearful, but what else can you do?
In Nadine's case, I might not have worried as much about the guys creepiness because I was right there, and I would have flattened his head with my foot if he did anything weird, but what do you do when you're not there with your kids. They have to to be taught to protect themselves. No easy feat.
2-08-2008 @ 3:45PM
Ethel said...It totally creeps me out and I find it entirely unacceptable for anyone (old, young, male, female) to address my kids before addressing me. Its inappropriate, I'm they're gatekeeper when they are babies and toddlers and they are still learning about social rules. In my opinion to allow folks to talk to them in an over friendly way when they are strangers is teaching my kids to trust everyone, and everyone is not trustworthy. The dude needs a clue about boundaries and kids, and since he is in a position of power he needs it more then most.
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2-09-2008 @ 8:30PM
pbhj said...Ethel >>> It totally creeps me out and I find it entirely unacceptable for anyone (old, young, male, female) to address my kids before addressing me.
Hmm. I work with family groups a lot, most of the time the session will be initiated and be "for" the kids. I often address the kids first, it's for them, but do also address the adults too within the same conversation.
It's different with different children of course but around the 8 year mark I think children really appreciated being talked to directly, rather than talked over. If I'm welcoming a family for a birthday party for example I'll try to speak to the celebrant first.
Also, because I've worked with kids groups a lot I'll sometimes see children with their families out in town shopping, etc.. I speak to the child first, because I don't feel comfortable just starting a conversation with a stranger. One has to try and stave off the death-daggers from parents long enough to then explain, "oh, I know Kimberley from Club, I'm one of the leaders there".
Lastly, my lad J is now 2y7mo. Nearly every time we're in town we'll meet someone he knows (or has met) but I haven't. Most of them say "hi J, you're growing up" (duh! we all do it though!) and then say something to me too.
It sad we have to be so suspicious in our society.
2-08-2008 @ 3:46PM
mamaloo said...We get a lot of elderly gentlemen giving my older son loonies in Toronto, for some reason!
I can be like this with kids, too. I may not really talk to the parents much but kids love attention and sometimes kids will behave better for their parents when they get a little positive attention.
And, cute little people: who can resist? I know I can't!
I'm guessing this fella is one of those very animated grandfathers who loves to get down on he floor with his grandkids (or would if he had them) and was bored silly at work. Talking to your kids probably made him feel fantastic.
I think that, as a society, we've had our creep metres screwed up by the media over-hype about child predators. I say, let the kids bask in the glory of attentive strangers, but remember to teach them not to give away too much info.
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2-08-2008 @ 4:02PM
CJLE said...I think most people are kind and good. I talk to most everyone who engages me and my children, BUT, if I had a creepy feeling about someone, I would act on it. You don't have to be rude, just move away from the situation.
I think we have a sixth sense and we should listen to it. I know your kids were well protected at the moment, but who knows, maybe he rocognized them from your neighborhood. Why take a chance. Our kids learn from us, there are times when you shouldn't be so friendly. I do think it is very strange that he didn't acknowledge you. If we make a mistake, I think it is worth doing it to protect and teach our children.
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2-08-2008 @ 5:52PM
Stephanie said...I think you should always trust your instincts, especially where your children are concerned.
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2-08-2008 @ 7:36PM
d. said...trust your creep factor i'd say 9/ 10 times you are right and the 1 time you are not, oh well!
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2-08-2008 @ 8:49PM
courtney said...Always trust your gut!
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2-08-2008 @ 8:57PM
isisaquaria said...Absolutely, trust your insticts!!!!! I think only YOU know what is best for your child-if you felt uneasy, something might have been allowing you to protect YOUR children.. If others what to let a child talk to strangers, male female young or old. If if you did fend him off by your behavior so be it--The is no replacement for mother's instinct.
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2-09-2008 @ 6:26AM
americangirl67 said...On one hand, I can't imagine a real child predator talking up potential victims right in front of Mom.
On the other hand, I would be freaked if, like you said, he "appeared out of nowhere and went straight for the kids."
It's one thing to be, say, stuck in a waiting room with other people, who gradually warm up to your kids and end up having a full-blown conversation. I'm from the South, and that happens to me all the time. I've even let my kids take gum from people in those type situations.
It's another thing entirely though, for someone to be so instantly attracted to your children that they make a beeline for them, and engage them in conversation without acknowledging you at all.
Bottom line, like everyone else says, is trust your instincts. In this day and age, when it comes to trusting other people, there is no such thing as overprotecting your kids.
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2-09-2008 @ 3:40PM
pamindian said...Trust your instincts! They are there for a reason! My little girl and I are pretty social even with people we don't know. Most of the time when we interact with people everything is fine... but every once in a while someone will make the hairs on the back of my neck stand straight up! Young, old, male or female...it doesn't matter...if something seems off there is a good chance that it is.
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2-09-2008 @ 5:17PM
Jan Bay said...This is the bad thing, you DON'T know which people have "those" kind of intentions. The ones that do probably learn to cover them up. I had a real shocker a few years back when I heard that a guy that I had considered to be a friend since early childhood (although we had not been in touch for a long time) got busted with inappropriate pictures of children. They were so "inappropriate" or how he got them or something landed him in prison for a year or two. Let this be a warning to us all....it can be anyone.
Jan from http://www.unique-baby-gear-ideas.com/
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2-09-2008 @ 8:27PM
Summer said...First of all, I ditto the above responses that say, "TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!!!"
I have had old men (and women) speak to my children and I didn't think a thing about it; other times, someone has approached my child and my radar went up. Why? I feel there is a purpose for this gut instinct and we are shortchanging ourselves and our children if we don't use it.
Now to address the above exceptions:
1) What if it was a woman? -- Well, that's all fine and good and if the world truly were an "equal" place, I could understand this reasoning, but it isn't. The fact stands that MEN pose FAR more risks to children than women (psychotic mothers, excluded). It's sad and it's not fair, but it's a fact.
2) As for the comments about a predator not coming right up to your kids with you standing there is absolutely NOT true. They most certainly would. I think they consider it almost a challenge.
That's why I agree that you should trust your instincts. No harm, no foul, but there's nothing wrong with caution. It's not like you deprived your children of anything good by being alert...
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2-09-2008 @ 9:30PM
SKL said...I guess what really bothered me about this post is that it seemed to me to imply that people are not allowed to come up and talk to children unless they talk to the parents too. Maybe I was reading too much into the post. I do agree that our instincts are valid and some people are creepy. But the sad thing is that many parents seem to think there is an unwritten rule that adults can't interact freely with kids, even in a non-threatening environment with their parents right there.
When I see a little kid looking at me, I normally say "hello" and if they look like they want to interact, I will talk to them about whatever - the toy they are holding, where they are going, the clothes they are wearing, whatever - because what they want is to be talked to and acknowledged, regardless of the chosen subject. I generally assume that the parents know what I'm up to - just entertaining their child for a moment - and usually I don't say anything to the parent (I mean, what do I have to say to them - "is it OK if I look at your kid"?). Usually I will smile at the parent if the parent is looking at me, but that's it. So what I'm hearing is that maybe I'm breaking a new rule. Even if this is the new rule, I am NOT going to start going around talking to all the parents I see, because I don't feel comfortable going up and talking to adults whom I don't know - and I'm pretty sure most adults feel the same way. So what this means is that our kids are going to grow up in a much colder world, if I am reading these comments correctly.
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2-09-2008 @ 9:59PM
Nadine Silverthorne said...Sorry, this is what happens when I try to post with the kids clamoring for my attention. Let me clarify. There was definitely something creepy about this guy. I don't need someone to ask my permission to talk to my kids. I also don't think (if he was a predator) that he would have tried anything right in front of my face. I'm not daft. There was just something about his demeanor and his approach that rubbed me the wrong way. I'm not saying I feel this way about every stranger. This was, in fact, the first time I felt uncomfortable with someone talking to my child.
But yeah, the media does hype this stuff up, making you feel like there's a creep lurking around every corner. And you're right, it is sad. It's sad we can no longer feel like every person that smiles at our children is just someone enjoying their beauty.
And about the gender thing -- it sucks but men are statistically more likely to be offenders. That being said, my sister and I were approached as children by a couple (a male and a female) asking us to get in their car and show them where a certain house was. So you never know.
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2-10-2008 @ 11:48AM
Ethel said...In response to pbjh, I am talking about babies and preschoolers not older kids, so take a step back and think about what you are writing. In working with kids with damaged or nonexistent boundaries (oh yes, did I mention that?) one thing that did not happen for them is their parents did not protect them with simple things as being gatekeepers when they were little. A healthy toddler and preschooler is suspicious of attention from an unfamiliar adult, the little kids that go and talk to everyone or are overly friendly are need more protection then most and possible have already been hurt. I know this because I am quite familiar with such children, and I have seen what happens when they get older.
Next time please take a moment to read what others have written, in my case I was talking about babies - not pubescent children. Too many people think that babies belong to everyone, but we also know that we don't live in biologically related groups anymore (which I do absolutely believe is important in terms of approaching children). I treat people as more dangerous then bears, bears at least make sense and of course males eat the cubs that presumably are not theirs to make room for their own progeny.
The worst in humans is when moms are bullied into an insidious position of not being able to protect their children from "seemingly benign" contacts. Part of keeping our kids safe is helping them build a good sense of self and listening to their guts, which includes when they are babies, toddlers, and preschoolers, being wary of strangers. I don't mean not talk to anyone, I mean watch and listen and decide upon review of what you're feeling and what you see - something that takes about 30 seconds in a healthy individual. We all do it, many of us have been taught to not listen to ourselves - we call those folks victims.
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