New school to pay teachers what they're worth (almost)
My wife is smarter than I am, is far more educated, works harder and longer (at least twice as much) than I do, and deals with much more serious and important issues. She helps mold the future of our society, dealing with combative parents and disruptive children, often filling in doing the parents' job when the parents can't or won't do it themselves. And for all this, she gets paid barely half what I do, gets little to no respect for doing it, and ends up spending her own money just to have the supplies to do her job.Well, if we were willing to move to New York, some of that could change -- the pay part anyway. A new charter school for grades five through eight is opening up and the salaries for teachers will be $125,000 per year, plus bonuses. That is two-and-a-half times the national average salary for teachers.
The idea for the school comes from Zeke M. Vanderhoek, a former middle school teacher and founder of a test preparation company. He believes -- and research has shown -- that good teachers are the key to overall student success, rather than technology or support staff or even elective courses. I agree with Vanderhoek that, as obvious as it sounds, good teachers are the most important part of a school.
"I would much rather put a phenomenal, great teacher in a field with 30 kids and nothing else," says Vanderhoek, "than take the mediocre teacher and give them half the number of students and give them all the technology in the world." He is hoping that the relatively high salaries will draw the best teachers.
Of course, that kind of salary comes with conditions -- the teachers will have to take on more responsibilities than teachers in other schools. Classroom teachers will handle chores like attendance and discipline themselves, rather than relying on a support staff. Even the principal will make less than the teachers, a shocking reversal of the norm. (Before you get too upset for the principal, however, note that the school's first principal will be Vanderhoek himself.)
Teachers are definitely interested; "I'm tired of making decisions about whether or not I can afford to go to a movie on a Friday night when I work literally 55 hours a week," said one applicant. "It's very frustrating. I'm feeling like I either have to leave New York City or leave teaching, because I don't want to have a roommate at 30 years old."
This is an exciting development and I hope it succeeds -- I wouldn't mind it at all if Rachel's salary came close to matching the effort she puts into her work.
Recent Posts
- How do you deal with broken highchairs? (5/11/2008)
- Not your mother's mom club (5/11/2008)
- Pregnancy tips all moms can use (5/11/2008)
- Most powerful lesbian moms (5/11/2008)
- Mom movies (5/11/2008)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 9)
Mel 3-11-2008 @ 3:49PM
I don't doubt that teachers put in a lot of effort. But the thing is, we're paid for what we produce, not what we attempt. The "A for effort" thing is just not applicable to real life, at least not in most jobs. I DREAMED of being an astronaut, I really did. Still do. I was willing to put in the effort and the time and the work. The truth is, though, I could never have accomplished what an astronaut is supposed to accomplish. Just don't have it in me. It wouldn't have mattered how much I TRIED to keep that satellite in orbit; it only would have mattered that I didn't produce the results expected of an astronaut. Same with any other job, including teachers. Teachers are not entitled to salaries commensurate with their effort; they must be evaluted based on what they PRODUCE. Similarly, a teacher just be naturally awesome at teaching and may as a result have to put in minimal effort. This teacher's salary shouldn't suffer just because she doesn't have to try hard; her salary should depend on what she PRODUCES.
All this focus on effort is one of the many things wrong with U.S. schools. Efforts counts for a good bit, but only insofar as it maximizes that which is produced. Effort without success is, frankly, irrelevant.
Reply
Nicole 3-11-2008 @ 10:02PM
That would be a good analogy IF we knew what our product would be before 10-12 years down the road when the students are finished with their early education...I think teachers should get paid for their effort...Many teachers work hard, long and often more than they should to make sure children learn the best they can and accomplish all they want to!
quesimple 3-11-2008 @ 10:28PM
Well, using your own words that you are paid for what you produce...parents' whose children are not producing should not get a tax credit for their little darlin's. A teacher can be the best there is and the parents can derail all the effort. I once had a student that was terribly disruptive in class. I called home and asked for suggestions on how WE could solve the problem. The response, "He's doing it at home too. What do you want me to do?" So, I say stop giving parents a tax credit if their children don't meet the standards set by the "No Child Left Behind" crap. Then maybe they will step up and be a partner in education!!!!
Geoff 3-12-2008 @ 1:31AM
Spoken like someone who is not a teacher and doesn't fully understand the job. Just because you're not an astronaut doesn't mean teachers shouldn't get paid what they're worth. I believe that teachers have the most important job in the world - educating our future leaders of the world. A teacher has the power to either help mold a student into the CEO of a company or into a menace to society, for instance. One negative comment can really mess up the student's life. In many cases, school is the only structure some students get in their life. In that regard, teachers are the only guard against the life that some students experience on a daily basis. It's all summed up into this one statement: Students don't care what a teacher knows until they know that the teacher cares.
aimee 3-12-2008 @ 11:30AM
Mel - all that you say is true. People should get paid for what they produce. Doctors, lawyers and the like have to produce results with material that is both in and out of their control. However, teachers differ in that much of the 'product' is dependent upon another human being with their own free will. Teachers can be as inspiring as Jesus Christ himself and still not light a fire in some students to learn and become productive members of society - or even score well on a standardized test. Teachers should be held accountable for doing the tangible parts of their job (enforcing rules, lesson plans, parent contact, etc) an not held accountable when their students choose not to study or blow off the latest test given to them. Of course I am touching on many different issues here: support from home, student accountability, the value of standardized tests, etc. Education in the United States will continue to limp along until all these things are rectified - which may be never for the majority of the population.
Baritenor 3-13-2008 @ 1:17PM
My question is: why would the best and brightest minds choose to be educators? We pay our public school teachers the lowest salary possible, and then we expect these same teachers to be miracle workers with our children. As a teacher I am constantly faced with budget cuts for essential supplies. I don’t know of a single teacher who doesn’t, in some way, have to supplement their limited classroom budget out of his or her own pockets. It is heartbreaking to see states balance budgets on the back on education. In essence, we’re placing a minimum value on our children’s future.
If states and school districts offer the lowest salary possible, then we don’t have the right to be outraged if we attract sub-standard teachers to compete for open jobs. The laws of supply and demand are in effect here. The excellent teachers are pulled away to other industries that are willing to pay for the expertise of those individuals, leaving the less-qualified teachers to compete for lower salary jobs. If states and school districts make salaries competitive, my contention is that the better teachers will be willing to vie for those positions. As it is, teachers are expected to do more and more with less and less. Teaching under these conditions is unappealing at best.
Amy 3-11-2008 @ 4:25PM
Mel - the difference between a satellite (which orbital mechanics will keep in orbit, not astronauts, but I'm willing to go with your goofy analogy for the sake of argument) and a student is that if an astronaut does the things he or she is supposed to do, the satellite will stay up. On the other hand, with children, no amount of teacher effort, involvement, charisma, education, training, passion, hard work, sacrifice, and elbow grease is enough to overcome the effects of incredibly shitty parents.
Kids go to school who have not eaten. Kids go to school who have not slept. Kids go to school after an entire night of laying awake, listening to their parents fight, or use drugs, or beat on their siblings, or all of the above. Kids start school who have never seen a book, or been to a museum, or been told "good job."
You can't hold a group of professionals financially responsible for the failure of a group of amateurs, which is exactly what you would be doing if you paid teachers based on performance. No one would want to teach in "failing" schools if you did this - or the teachers teaching in those schools would be the lousy ones who were unable to get work in a better paying school - which would compound the problem. The committed teachers (like my brother, who teaches special ed in Gary, Indiana, God love him) who work with "at risk" populations are the best shot that those kids have. Should my brother make less money than the already paltry amount he makes, because half of his students are gang members who can't speak proper English? How does that make any logical sense?
Reply
Mel 3-11-2008 @ 5:49PM
MOST jobs require employees to control for that which is beyond the employees' dominion. Those who successfully overcome challenges are paid more. Doctors face exactly the challenges you list: they cannot ensure that every cancer cell is wiped out, etc. Those doctors who PRODUCE RESULTS, in the form of saved lives, are paid more. Lawyers, too. They can't control every decision a court or a legislature make, but they are expected to win nevertheless. When they win, they're paid more. Same for personal trainers: My trainer has no say about that Snickers I snuck after today's workout; however, he keeps his job only if I lose weight. A salesman is paid to make sales; his salary suffers if he doesn't make sales, even if the lack of sales is due to a bad economy or a subpar product. I could go on and on, but the bottom line is that it's not unfair to require that teachers produce results merely because there are sucky students. Indeed, most people are asked to produce results in spite of obstacles.
just saying 3-11-2008 @ 9:03PM
I started school before I ever saw a book, and I gaduated on time, 35 out of 367 students and I was never told good job.
I fail to see what this has to do with a nation full of sorry ass, don't want to work for a living, no good teachers. They will, however, blame the loss on the parents, that the parents aren't doing their part.
Well, let's se: you want to go to the museum and we send them. You want to go to the zoo, and we send them. You wanted us to pay for all of the supplies and we did that, yet you still bitch, complain, whine and make up excuses as to why our kids are failing.
If I had my way, I would fire each and every one of you sorry asses and let the kids learn from one very good instructor over the internet and that would solve the problem for ever!!
Amy 3-11-2008 @ 9:23PM
Just Saying -
Did you walk uphill both ways, too? In the snow? Without shoes?
Kids these days, right? Hey, you'd better look out the window. I think one of them is on your lawn.
Amy @ http://prettybabies.blogspot.com
eckohill 3-12-2008 @ 9:08PM
VERY WELL SAID.
SKL 3-11-2008 @ 4:44PM
If they could figure out a proper system of pay for performance, I would be all about it. The money that would be saved from not having to remediate and discipline poorly-educated kids, along with taxes on the GDP increase, would more than pay for the salary difference.
I believe it is not an impossible task. The key is to get those institutions of mediocrity known as teachers' unions out of the picture.
Reply
jearley 3-31-2008 @ 7:39PM
The Unions are not the problem. The system is not the problem most of the time. The problems are that teachers are required to teach to students who do not want to learn, and are not prepared. We are also required to do so much more than just teach, that sometimes we do not have the time to do what would be best for our students.
My physics students just took the state wide assessment test. 100% of them passed. Only 75% of my astronomy students passed, because those are students who chose to take an easier subject, or perhaps they are just not as smart. In any event, the state average of students passing on their first try is about 51%, so I am still proud of them. For this achievement, I will receive no recognition, no bonus, nothing. The first day that I started teaching, I was a teacher. The last day that I teach, I will still be a teacher. I have a degrees in math and physics from Cal, and a masters in Astronomy from James Cook, in Australia. I am told that I could make far more in the private sector, but I enjoy my job. Now- I am only worth what the market will pay me. I barely get by on my salary. I have no real point here, I guess. I am just trying to express my frustration at trying to do a good job, and getting nowhere. Thanks for reading this.
John Galt 3-11-2008 @ 5:24PM
First, we need to quit wasting taxpayer money on children that have no ability or desire to learn. Blaming circumstances on the failure of the public education system is a cop out because there are plenty of kids with admittedly poor backgrounds that do great in school, just as there are plenty of kids from good backgrounds that do poorly in school. Every child has to make the decision for themselves: Do I take school seriously and better myself or do I waste the opportunity an education offers and become a burden on the teachers and students that make the correct decision. No amount of money or wishful thinking will change the fact that some kids are just not worth the time and effort.
Second, whatever happened to teaching being a vocation? It used to be that people went into teaching because they wanted to help people, not because they wanted to get rich. Using Roger's calculation means that the average teacher makes $50,000/year. This is good money for 8-months work, and puts teachers into the top 50% of taxpayers. If their salaries are annualized ($75,000), they are well into the top 25%.
Before the apologists get all upset, remember that teachers (as government workers) have better health and retirement plans than many of the taxpayers who pay their salary, and make significantly more than most of the taxpayers they expect to give them huge pay increases. Teachers (as union workers) get automatic pay increases each year, and after they teach for a period of time they become tenured, which means they don't have to worry about losing their job (a luxury most private sector workers can only dream about).
With all of that said, I do believe that there are some teachers that are underpaid - just like there are some that are overpaid. Those that teach complicated subjects that will be of higher value to students (and society) in the future - math, science, business, etc.- likely deserve to have pay increases. Those that teach less complicated subjects that make us feel good, but aren't as valuable from a production standpoint - art, music, foreign language, etc. - likely make too much. In addition to pay for performance, the overall benefit to society of the subject being taught should be taken into account.
While I enjoy things such as art and music, these things are not nearly as valuable to me as doctors, engineers, etc. when it comes to what each has to offer by way of improving my life.
When I was in college taking calculus and accounting classes, the education majors I knew were cutting out construction paper for their projects. Somehow, I don't think they are worth the same when it comes to salary.
Reply
Mel 3-11-2008 @ 5:39PM
Amen.
the goddess anna 3-11-2008 @ 7:11PM
First, I like your handle. Very appropriate considering what I've seen you post.
Second, I just want to object to lumping foreign language teachers in with music/art teachers in terms of being overpaid. I took 6 years of German and 1 year of Latin, and that one year provided a solid base for the Russian that I learned in the military. I think that foreign language should play a bigger role in education - even if you don't retain much of the active language, the learning of grammar can go a long way in the adult world. This is mostly because you need to be aware of the grammatical rules of English in order to learn those of a different langauge. Of course, this is my personal opinion, so take it how you will.
Also, before we talk about teachers' salaries, how about we talk about getting rid of the atrocious unions? Education costs would come down if we weren't all lining the pockets of the NEA.
Lorie 3-11-2008 @ 8:49PM
You make some very good points. As an educator I can see your point, but let me say you are very far off the mark. I'm not sure how long ago you were in college, but when I was completing my Elementary Education degree at Indiana University I can tell you I was not cutting construction paper. Yes that is part of being a teacher, but the requirements have changed over the last few years. I am in my 15th year of teaching and what my 5th graders are required to know is beyond their mental abilities which were introduced by Piaget many years ago. I spend time each week studying the science concepts I teach.
I am greatful I live and teach in the United States. We believe all children have a chance at changing thier lives. This does mean that as a teacher I have to work with what I am given each year. Is it a child's fault that they are a drug baby ... or the result of a teenage pregancy? You see children of parents who used during conception or pregancy have difficulties with storing information? Are you aware the "normal" person take approximately 7 times of being presented with information while students who don't fit the "normal" category can take up to 700 times? So who is at fault here? The Child? The parent?
I think you need to step into a teacher's shoes for 1 week and then let's talk. And those benefits you talk about .... they certainly have gotten smaller each year I have taught school. You are right about going into education for the personal satisfaction of seeing students learn and grow. According to your input Elementary Teachers should be paid the most. Are you aware that we teach kindergarters how to read now? The concepts in science are just as astounding ... they have to know the complete water cycle. Are you even able to tell someone this information?
Come to my school. I will be glad to share with you what it means to teach children who have no parental involvement. Many of them take care of younger siblings and then have to reverse roles and become a child while at school. What about the child who only eats when school is in session? What do they do on the weekends and other breaks? Do you think you can concectrate when you know there won't be dinner?
A teacher who loves her job!
teacher4life 3-12-2008 @ 3:34PM
Good great and fine if you live in a perfect world. Teacher's don't have great health benefits at least where I live and the ones who are tenured usually quit trying after they have a secure position. I teach at a Catholic school which pays less and has extremely lesser quality in health care and THEREs NO TENURE!!! Which works out great. I don't have to "produce" genuises, just teach the curriculum so that the kids have an understanding of what they are supposed to know BEYOND simple memorization. However, last year I taught at the poorest inner city schools so I see that side of the coin too. There has to be some happy medium though. I go into work at 7 and leave at 5 at the earliest. I have meetings and parent conferences, and rarely get to see my 10 month old. I have a summer "break" HA! I get out of school the last day in May, and June 3rd I'm in summer school for 8 weeks, then back again to teach a week and a half later! And that is all for a whopping 28K a year. I am dedicated and I work my butt off...I should get paid for the results I produce, but there has to be a way better than standardized testing because we all know they are biased. I have seen this personally. These tests are directed primarily for white middle class students to succeed. Not only that, of these children who are "targeted" to succeed in this type of test, only 50% will because the other half, parents don't sit down and have discussions with thier kids or help them with their homework. It's quite appalling. I do more than 28K of work and I deserve more. Who do you think sparks the future doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. to WANT to be in that field in the future? Hell! With the hours I work and spend time away from MY kid to educate yours, MY kid will be the garbage man because he had no time with mommy at home because she was teaching everyone else! How is that fair.
More money for teachers equals happier teachers and a more productive future for us to live in.
Kevin 3-11-2008 @ 9:10PM
more value to our society?? have you ever had an original thought in your life? do we live for math? do we live for poetry, music, etc... why would art be worth less?? would you like to live in a creative vacuum, how about one of those sci-fi flix where everyone wears the same thing eats the same thing and sleeps the same number of hours while were at it. GREAT!! produce computers instead of people, man that is a great idea!! Where did you go to school?? have you ever heard of CULTURE?
Nia 3-11-2008 @ 9:17PM
To hear you say that some children are not worth the "time or effort", and that "blaming circumstances is a cop out" is truly scary and totally against what most educators stand for. After 6 years of teaching, I have not yet met the child that is not worth my best effort and tax payers dollars. While I agree that children must accept some level of accountability when it comes to their education, I also feel as though schools with large populations of at risk children must take on more responsibility than others.
I teach chilren of inner city schools who are faced with issues that most adults can not handle, and despite what they are faced with, they still show up ready and willing to learn. Some are able to overcome those obstacles, and others don't have the necessary support systems or resources to overcome them. I don't think that the previous poster was 'blaming circumstances' or attempting to make a cop out, rather, she was attempting to identify those factors that ultimately hinders that child's ability to learn. Which is best practices in the field of education.
But as an educator, it is my JOB, to teach all children, and if I had the mindset that some children are not worth it, I just might miss the opportunity to reach the next Ben Carson or Albert Einstein, both of whom were discounted and thought of as a waste of time.
In your post you speak of the average teaching salary being rougly 50,000. It is my assumption that this figure must be inclusive of benefits because, minus the benefits, the average teacher salary just cleared 40-. It is true that 40,000 is ok, if you only consider the fact that teachers work 10 months out the year, however, if we were to 'atleast' compensate most teachers for the amount of out of class time that is spent grading papers, writing lesson plans, and individual education plans, reading current literature to stay abreast of trends and issues,......you are at at minimum 60 hours. None of which you are paid for. Now that 40,000 isn't as much, when teaching leaves you very little time to do much else. But alll in all, we simply hope that the payoff is the success of our students. You also spoke of pay increases, which are somewhat nonexistant. On average, first year teachers in my district will receive a whopping 280.00 dollars the first year, and the if you continue to teach, they don't get any better. So all of the free health care and annualization cannot supplement for the lack of pay, given the level of responsibility and accountability teachers are charged with.
You said that while you were in your calculus and accounting classes, education majors where cutting out projects. I guess to imply that their work was not as important as the work that you were doing. But did you ever stop to think that if it were not for those education majors, and their construction paper, you would not have been sitting in your calculus class?