Science in Oklahoma: God did it
Categories: Alcohol & drugs, Education
The Oklahoma House of Representatives education committee is set to offer students a new way to pass science tests without actually having to go through the annoying process of learning anything. When they encounter a question to which they don't know the answer, they can simply write "God did it" or something similar and expect full credit for a correct answer.The actual bill was not written by Oklahoma lawmakers but by the fundamentalist Christian group, Liberty Legal Institute of Plano, Texas. They have marketed their proposed law all over, including their home state of Texas where it was passed and is already causing trouble, according to the Edmond Sun.
That this has been approved by the education committee in Oklahoma doesn't surprise me, given who is a member of that committee -- State Representative Sally Kern who has recently been in the news for her recent hateful, homophobic rant that was, unbeknownst to her, caught on tape.
In addition to the lawsuits waiting to happen if this becomes law, there is the issue of learning what you're taught, regardless of whether or not you believe it. Colleges and universities don't generally accept "God did it" as an answer when that isn't what the professor said. Neither does the business world. It seems to me that, even if you don't believe it, there is value in learning to give the answer your teacher (or professor or boss) is looking for, rather than the one that makes you happy. What do you think?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
RobMonroe 3-12-2008 @ 11:26AM
Umm....wow. I think that I would favor a class that combined creation with evolution OVER this so that the students have to have some sort of answer. I went to a Baptist school and this would not have flown even there!
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eugene 3-12-2008 @ 11:29AM
I wonder how many of these "chrsitians" are out there yelling on about islam-o-fascism and mocking islamic theocratic nations? Then they turn around and try to press their own caveman sensibilites on the rest of us.
Christians should try reading the Bible and try emulating Christ... that involves accepting and loving people who don't think the same way they do and ultimately, working on their own walk with God and not monitoring how others choose to live their lives.
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Mel 3-12-2008 @ 11:56AM
I am surprised this offends anyone; it fundamentally comports with both the spirit and the letter of the First Amendment. You see, there are students for whom answering "4 billion years" to the question of the age of the Earth is an assault on their religious convictions. While this may be a scientifically proven fact, the First Amendment permits one to express beliefs that are contrary to science. Please - overlook all the brouhaha surrounding creation/evolution and try to see this for what it is: some students, in order to pass, have had to provide answers on tests that were inconsistent with their spiritual views. Whether or not you agree with this law, you must recognize the truth of my last statement. And with regard to evolution, many of you will say that it is a theory and it is tested as such, but that isn't always the case. Evolution on tests is often presented as fact, not theory, which is to say that not every question begins with the phrase, "according to the Theory of Evolution..." Rather, the questions are presented in such a way that when an answer is provided, there is a statement of fact that is made. When a student disagrees spriitually with that statement, he might be uncomfortable. I've met at least one teen who suffered considerable cognitive dissonance as a result of this type of thing. I can understand why all this sounds ridiculous to some of you, but please consider how you would feel if the tables were turned. Say your teacher had Christian views about creation, and her tests reflected that. In order to pass, you'd have to provide the answers she wanted. According to Roger's logic, you'd be correct in regurgitating "the answer your teacher is looking for." See how that would reek of unfairness? It is *exactly* the same for religious students; in this case it just riles feathers because the PC police attack.
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W. H. Heydt 3-12-2008 @ 9:37PM
Glad to see that you've met a teen who had a congitive dissoance problem trying to resolve "Biblical literalism" (which is never actually believed...there are *always* "interpretations") and actual science.
That evolution has happened is established fact. There are many museums, scientific papers, books, and web sites with the evidence that supports that. The explanation of the mechanisms, to the extent they have been worked out, is the *theory* of evoluition, but do not mistake this use of theory for the common one meaning a guess. Modern Eveolutionary Theory is the kind of theory that gravity, relativity and thermodynamics are.
Students are welcome to believe any fool thing they wish. When they're taking science courses, they had better learn some actual science if they want to pass tests.
SKL 3-12-2008 @ 12:38PM
Although the article does not actually tell us what the law says, and I hesitate to comment on it based on the spin put on it by opponents, I can see this in several ways.
First, you are always promoting minor students' rights to protest by breaking whatever rule they want in order to express their beliefs. I am not sure how this is any different. But, I personally don't agree with you about minor students' rights, so I would not support this position in this case.
I would prefer an approach that both requires learning and respects religion. Students should be able to state what is the scientific concensus that they have been taught, and ALSO state that they do not believe that this concensus reflects the truth. This should be allowed whether or not the student's beliefs are based on religion, experience, or other background information. This would encourage a level of critical thinking beyond just "memorize, regurgitate, forget" which was the learning method decried by my upper-elementary science teacher.
It would be a breath of fresh air if the standards in public high schools were high enough for this discussion to be relevant in practice. Unfortunately, I feel that's not the case in our education system today.
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Uly 3-12-2008 @ 8:13PM
"Students should be able to state what is the scientific concensus that they have been taught, and ALSO state that they do not believe that this concensus reflects the truth."
Of course. And if a student were to do that and be punished, I'm sure most people would support them - even if it is a little disruptive.
But they have to at least pretend to want to memorize things.
W. H. Heydt 3-12-2008 @ 9:39PM
Would you also approve of applying "critical thinking" to religious beliefs? Or do they have a "special dispensation" from being questioned?
eugene 3-12-2008 @ 12:43PM
Please, your view has one GLARING flaw, by passing these ridiculous laws, you are now forcing your religion on those of us who don't practice it. Should science classes like biology, geology and physics now have to teach all major religions in order to be fair? Should our students be taught that another alternate "theory" is that the world is a big turtle, carried around the universe on the backs of elephants? Or that land was born out of the sea because a cosmic monkey picked the sky fruit and defecated the continents?
Please stop trying to obfuscate the issue, no one is saying you and yours can't believe in whatever religion you want. HOWEVER, you and yours are forcing my kid to learn your religion at the cost of properly understanding science. Keep your religion in your home, and in your church, temple, whatever and stop trying to force it in our schools. The very idea that my tax dollars are being wasted propagating your, or any religion is infuriating.
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Burning Prairie 3-12-2008 @ 1:29PM
Creation myths of any stripe belong in a humanities course, not in a science course. To close one's mind and insist on the Genesis version exhibits a profound ignorance of both evolutionary fact and religion. Just another secular humanist? Guess again. Please visit http://burningprairie.com/?p=32 for a complete run-down on NOT closing one's mind to an infinite God.
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Eva 3-12-2008 @ 1:32PM
Oh how frustrating and embarrassing this is to me as a rational and educated American.
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Burning Prairie 3-12-2008 @ 1:49PM
Well, Eva, this is extraordinarily frustrating and embarrassing to this rational and educated Oklahoman!
queenoqueens 3-12-2008 @ 1:49PM
The difference with asserting the earth is 6,000 years old vs. 4 billion is your source. The source of the 1st answer is a religious text. The second is the result of many studies of the actual earth. Can we agree that the thing we call "science" is a set of methodologies that don't involve religious texts?
If we are all going to live together that means that church must be separated from the state, because there's more than one religion. Anything originating from religious texts can be put in the faith category and omitted from the school syllabus. Otherwise, let's get busy on integrating Scientology studies at school while we're at it, and whatever other religion floats our way.
I'm guessing Science and History are the only controversial subjects? If so, perhaps they could be made electives. And the kids that would experience "cognitive dissonance" can opt out of it. And then you can teach them creationism (?) at home, for which they could get specific credit. Of course, their records would reflect that they didn't take "traditional" history or science, and they would have to deal with what the colleges had to say about that.
Of course, if it's a public college, you'd be moving the argument there. But the private colleges could make their own decision.
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the goddess anna 3-12-2008 @ 1:53PM
I'll admit that if we could have answered like this when I was in high school, I would have written 'God is unknowable and unmeasurable by modern science' all over my physics mid-term. And I didn't believe in him back then either.
I have a feeling there are lots of kids today, that if this passed, would be thinking the same thing. 'God did it' is just a cop-out. I didn't believe that the New Deal was anything but American Fascism, but I still had to learn it for my history class (and I got points off an essay for backing up my belief with facts, but that's another topic)- if the kids feel that strongly about their beliefs, then maybe they should go to a school that accomodates their beliefs (one of the thousands of reasons I'm for school vouchers).
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CLM 3-12-2008 @ 2:40PM
So if the obvious question is - how did these people get so idiotic? Is the obvious answer then "God did it!"? Poor God.
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isisaquaria 3-13-2008 @ 9:23AM
My thoughts exactly.... as much as Oklahoma is God's country, he must have dropped some on the cranium. (Although this apparently happens everywhere) I am all for freedom of religion --but there are answers provided for these test and they are taught. If the students are given this cop-out, what next?
If they get to use this during biology, can they then use it to tell the parents about the pregnancy? (Not implying this occurs just in OK, just asking)
Anthony 3-12-2008 @ 2:44PM
Oh my.
Didn't we just have this discussion?
http://www.parentdish.com/2008/03/10/do-your-kids-learn-darwinism-in-school/#comments
Oh wait, no that was over presenting the information in science classes. This is about *accepting* religious information in science classes as 'truth'.
Why is American society accepting religious zealotry in the public school system? What happened to the constitutionally mandated separation of church and state? See Everson v. Board of Education, 330 U.S. 1 (1947) for reference (wikipedia will point you to it).
\adds Oklahoma to the list of places to 1) avoid sending children to, and 2) scrutinize the education portions of resumes from
A>
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Katheryn 3-12-2008 @ 4:00PM
My biggest complaint about some of these comments are those who start complaining about 'Christians'. As if they are all one and the same. I am a Christian, and I think this is very wrong. I went to school and was taught and learned about evolution, the big bang, other religions and countries. I was tested on these subjects. There were things I was taught in school that I disagreed with, but who cares? Such is life.
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ame s 3-12-2008 @ 5:41PM
Ah, just what our country needs, more young idiots.
Let's see them pass a college entrance exam with that answer.
May be a good idea to move there when my children are older. Less competition for scholarships and jobs.
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Don 3-13-2008 @ 7:47AM
That's fine they can put that down "God did it" as a answer, but that wouldn't stop me from asking said student "How he did it".
If the student can answer my rebuttal question with science based evidence then I would give them credit for it. However if that student failed to do so then he or she would get no credit.
As for the whole basis that evolution contradicts their beliefs, that is okay by me your allowed to believe whatever you want.
That doesn't excempt your child from having to learn what states deem releveant to a childs education.
What would be the harm in learning something that questions your religion? You don't have to believe it, you just have to know what the correct answer is to pass a test.
Are people of faith so insecure that their faith would be tainted by a high school science test? If so perhaps you should home school your children, if it's so important to hide your children from the idea that there are people who live in a world without a God.
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mamacheryl 3-13-2008 @ 7:55AM
I was raised an evangelical Christian, and I was homeschooled during the years that this part of science was taught. Even in my fundamentalist Christian science classes, I had to learn evolutionary theory and Darwin. It was never presented as a die-hard "fact," but I had to learn and memorize all the reasonings and proofs that went along with it. Why? Because I was expected to live successfully in a secular society where most people believe in evolutionary theory as fact.
I am no longer religious, and like some of the above posters, I feel that Creationism should be taught in a humanities course. I'm very grateful that the authors and instructors who developed my curricula insisted on a "whole" education, rather than just the pieces that were explained in the Bible.
Cheryl
http://redpens-diapers.blogspot.com
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