Parents choose faith over science
In what is perhaps the most heated of debates about our children, our beliefs and our medicine, a girl has died after her parents chose prayer over doctors. The girl suffered from a rare form of diabetes.
Madeline Kara Neumann, 11, of Wisconsin, suffered from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that caused her to have too little insulin in her system. Her mother, Leilani, believes in the Bible and the healing powers of God, and so turned to her faith to battle her daughter's sickness.
Madeline's mother maintains the girl was healthy until several weeks ago, and that she looked like she would recover. Her father, Dale Neumann, started CPR when his daughter stopped breathing. Unfortunately, he was unable to revive her.
According to the police chief, given the girl's condition, she probably suffered nausea, vomiting, thirst, loss of appetite and weakness before she passed away. Other family members contacted authorities to try to get help for the girl, commenting that her parents were religious and refused to seek medical attention for her at a hospital.
It may seem like the obvious thing to blame the parents for not taking their daughter to a doctor, but I think that's the easy way out. I am not a religious person, I freely admit, so it is impossible for me to comment on whether or not I think the parents in this case did the right thing. it seems these people felt like they were doing the right thing--they were not intending to harm their daughter.
Still, when I think she might have suffered before her death it makes it hard for me to feel for the parents. I also admit freely I trust in doctors and Western medicine. I do homeopathic whenever possible and veer toward the Eastern medicines a lot of the time, but if my child were sick I would take him to the doctor asap.
That doesn't make me right--that's just what I would do. Ultimately, I am terribly sorry this family had to lose a child. Regardless of whether or not we agree with the steps Madeline's parents did or did not take, I am sure they are grieving terribly for the loss of their youngest.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
SKL 3-28-2008 @ 12:51PM
The article I read said this child's condition was UNDIAGNOSED and her parents believed she was not fatally ill. That is different from them knowingly withholding treatment for a diagnosed fatal illness. Many of us are seriously compromising our kids' health by feeding them crap and other actions. I don't see how this is any worse. People just fear what they don't understand.
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isisaquaria 3-28-2008 @ 4:00PM
Yes, but the article also refers to other family members trying to get help for the girl-thus not seeking treatment makes them neglectful. The sis/sil in er logs states 'she will refuse. And unless you are blind deaf and dumb, this child appeared ill and was not treated.
You say in another post that you do not give your child med or take meds yourself-thankfully they have not been that ill.....but would you deny either your girls or yourself insulin given the majority (not all) of information out there...if it were needed? In all your posts, the love you have shows thru greatly and I tend to believe you would not intentionally deny them something of that nature.
While we will most likely never get all the facts-this child is lost. And there was no medical intervention. If not involuntary manslaughter, would you at least consider it neglectful?
This post is not meant to anger, so pls do not take offense--I think some thought should be given to the reality of a death like this.
SKL 3-28-2008 @ 4:22PM
And by the way, it is not that uncommon for a child with Type I diabetes to die before being diagnosed. Even when the parents are not particularly opposed to medicine. It is a disease that can really sneak up on you. Most parents don't even know the symptoms. The only reason the family in this case isn't getting the same sympathy we'd give another family with a child who died from the same undiagnosed disease is that they have a non-mainstream faith. Following a religion is a right in this country; it is not child abuse. Just because you all can't relate doesn't mean you can trample on these people's rights.
SKL 3-28-2008 @ 4:38PM
Isis, the question here shouldn't be what I would do or what you would do. It's what these parents had the right to do and did. I don't know enough to judge these folks, and therefore I must assume that they love their kids as much as I love mine, and would only want to do what is best for them.
Parents just don't go to jail for doing things other parents wouldn't have done. Even if their child dies. I know so many kids with serious health problems that exist only because their parents make choices that I would never make. Sometimes these health problems lead to an untimely death. It is extremely rare for such a case to lead to criminal prosecution. Yet whenever it turns out that faith is a factor in a parent's choice, there is this loud clamoring for prosecution. This is clear religious intolerance and discrimination.
Wasn't it just yesterday that people were hollering about a child dying due to a medical intervention (anaesthesia during breast reconstructive surgery) that some parents would have chosen not to pursue? This is just one example of such a case - it made the news because "journalists" could use the "boob job" headline to get attention. But in that case, religion wasn't an issue, so people were happy to agree that the parents in that case should not have sought medical intervention. Don't you know people who believe a loved one's death was caused by medical intervention? I certainly do.
The popular reactions to these choices are just not principled. Parents have the first right and responsibility to make decisions about both religion and medical intervention for their children. These are some of the most basic aspects of what we call freedom in this country. If we are to deny these freedoms as a principle, I assure you this would curtail some of your choices as well.
queenoqueens 3-28-2008 @ 2:30PM
Regardless of what kind of medicine is best for humans, has anyone ever had a child get over an illness with just parental prayer? Just wondering.
At this point in my life, I know now that people can have the best of intentions and suffer tragic consequences anyway. Unfortunately, intentions don't really matter to reality. Only taking the right steps matter.
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SKL 3-28-2008 @ 3:09PM
Yes. Lots of times. Kids' bodies are made to fight illness. Prayer in the right mindset puts people in an ideal state for healing. These are both proven scientific facts. It is also a fact that medicines are basically poisons that all compromise a child's natural health boosters. In every case, parents need to weigh the pros and cons. If more parents did, kids would be healthier all around. But we are too lazy to get educated and make a pros/cons analysis. Easier to hand off the responsibility to doctors.
SKL 3-28-2008 @ 3:13PM
Oh, and for the record, I'm not a Christian Scientist, though I have read Science and Health by Mary Baker Eddy with an open mind, along with many other religious books. I have never given my kids medicine and they are very healthy, thank God and knock on wood. I don't take meds either until I am convinced I need them to cure an unbearable problem. My health is extremely good, thank God and knock on wood.
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Sarah 3-28-2008 @ 5:00PM
"Kids' bodies are made to fight illness. Prayer in the right mindset puts people in an ideal state for healing. These are both proven scientific facts. It is also a fact that medicines are basically poisons that all compromise a child's natural health boosters."
Simply stating things are scientific facts does not actually make them scientific facts. It must be proven. Please link to the studies that purport to prove this so we may 1) decide for ourselves if the resource is credible and 2) so we may examine how the study was conducted and find any confounds.
When some says something is a "proven scientific fact" and gives absolutely no evidence I automatically dismiss their claim as holding no water. Also, I feel it is respectful to present the evidence, since just expecting those one is trying to convince to accept a "fact" because some nameless person over the internet said so is insulting to everyone's intelligence.
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SKL 3-28-2008 @ 10:20PM
Sarah, It's not my job to educate you just because you don't follow the health news that has broadly disseminated through mainstream news sources. Based on your logic, I shouldn't believe that insulin is a valid treatment for diabetes because nobody cited a study about it. It's fine with me if you prefer to be ignorant. If not, do some intelligent research or be aware of what's going on around you. I was merely stating what most intelligent people already know. You insulted your own "intelligence" by your comment.
Sarah 3-29-2008 @ 1:31AM
If these studies are every where as you claim they are it would be quite simple for you to copy and paste a link. While it's not your job to educate the public, the burden of proof is on you. If you want people to believe you, you need to give them reason to. Your ad hominem attack on me and fallacy of appeal to vanity do not detract from the fact you have failed to do so. If anything, they give me more reason to believe your supposed studies either don't exist or are from a laughable source. However, if credible studies are really out there it would take a few clicks of your mouse to prove otherwise.
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SKL 3-29-2008 @ 3:08PM
I have more important things to do. Ignorance is bliss so, go be happy.
Sarah 3-29-2008 @ 8:18PM
No you don't. You type essay long opinions on PD all the time. But when someone calls you on your lack of facts you lash out at them and then suddenly become "too busy". You and I both know you have nothing solid to base your opinions on pertaining to this post. Have fun doing your important things.
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SKL 3-29-2008 @ 11:54PM
Sarah, you and so many people do this. First you insult me and then you accuse me of lashing out at you.
You are an idiot. There, I've said it. I do not care if you know enough factual information to agree with me. (Obviously you don't care if you know, either - in fact, you'd rather not see proof that you are wrong - so why should I go to the effort to prove it? For that matter, I don't believe you would respect my view even if I cited a hundred references from mainstream sources.)
If you want to be treated politely, you need to treat others politely. Oh, but "do unto others" is a Biblical teaching, so it must be unscientific, stupid, and harmful.
Sarah 3-30-2008 @ 2:53AM
Disagreeing with you does not mean I treated you impolitely. Please point out where I did so, or are you too busy again? Who is the one calling the names here? And why would I ask for these sources if I didn't want to see proof I was wrong? I actually thought after the first time I replied you would cite them. I will admit I was blunt, but it irritates me when someone goes around masquerading their opinion as fact, regardless of whether I agree with the opinion or not. But just because I didn't cover my disagreement with sugar and add a little cherry on top does not mean I was impolite about it.
And I never said anything against the Bible. While I am not Christian, the Bible has some beautiful writing in it. I am particularly fond of Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. Not that "do unto others" is a teaching unique to the Christian bible.
For example:
Judaism
"What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man. This is the law: all the rest is commentary." Talmud, Shabbat 31a
Buddhism
"...a state that is not pleasing or delightful to me, how could I inflict that upon another?" Samyutta NIkaya v. 353
Taoism
"Regard your neighbor's gain as your own gain, and your neighbor's loss as your own loss." T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien
Look at me, giving examples and citing sources like a champ! It takes a little extra effort, but that is what I would want someone making debatable claims to do for me.
I am going to discontinue this exchange since I don’t feel like it’s going anywhere, and because you seem pretty frustrated. My intent wasn’t to make you feel insulted, but I will not (in real life or over the internet) handle unsubstantiated claims and those who purport them with kid gloves. So, good luck and God bless!
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Sandyone 3-30-2008 @ 5:28PM
My dad's parents are long dead, but my mom prays for him and one of his health issues has disappeared, baffling the doctors. He was receiving no treatment for it and not because the doctors figured it would resolve on it's own. They simply didn't know what to do for it. The problem is now gone.
I just typed "prayer and healing" into Google. I'm not interested enough to read through the studies and sort out which ones might speak to you, but I do know that I've seen lots of headlines in newspapers and magazines about the power of prayer.
You might also be interested in looking up miracles at Lourdes or Fatima...many people have left those places miraculously healed.
Even people who simply meditate, without praying to a Supreme Being, heal better. Could it be God, trying to send them a message? Maybe. Could also be that it reduces stress, which inhibits the body's ability to heal or care for itself.
This kind of stuff just makes common sense to me and I often wonder why people spend so much money on studies to prove it. "Too much food and not enough exercise leads to weight gain". Brilliant! *How* much money did they spend to figure this one out???
I like all of those quotes from the different religions (spiritualities?). Natural Law is written on everyone's heart. The problems arise when we forget to read it and pay attention to it. Religion reminds us and keeps it from becoming twisted. (well, it can...some religions actually really twist Natural Law)
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Katherine 3-30-2008 @ 5:34PM
Where can I get a bottle of what you guys are drinking? You are so into arguing with one another than the point of a dead child is lost. These parents were at best ill-advised and at worst criminal. We need to use the tools available to protect our children. This report makes me angry and sad.
All that said,
Don't y'all have spell-check? Do you have no regard for the apostrophe?
You make yourselves appear ignorant and therefore your opinions are devalued.
Of course, aschuss me.
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Kate Thompson 3-30-2008 @ 6:14PM
SKL: you are an idiot.
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isisaquaria 4-01-2008 @ 1:44AM
Just some new facts--why, if the parents didn't believe in drs-did the parents have an HMO which they used often? And other children have been to the dr....just not this one. I think we all need to look at in again with new info that has been discovered.
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SKL 4-01-2008 @ 10:12AM
I'm not following the news on this so I am not informed of the details.
But I wanted to say this. I know a man whose 9-year-old son nearly died of undiagnosed diabetes. They had kept him home from school one day because he seemed to have the flu. When the mom checked on him a few hours into the day, he was passed out on the floor - in a coma that he almost didn't come out of. These folks were not in any way opposed to medicine, and had no warnings that a lay person would recognize. Diabetes is a fatal disease and still one of the leading killers of people of all ages. We shouldn't automatically assume that the child would be alive today if her parents didn't believe in prayer.
As for the fact that relatives thought they should go to the doctor - my family thinks I should do a lot of things differently with my kids, including some things that relate to medicine. We differ. That doesn't make me a criminal.
I think the fact that the three older kids are healthy indicates that these folks are good parents who got unlucky.
isisaquaria 4-02-2008 @ 4:08PM
SKL- your right it can happen fast, even misdiagnosed from drs.
That being said, the indication in this case is one of neglect thus far-further investigation needed. It seems she was ill for 30 days (give or take) that the family knew of-
Others have said the family had no real religious affliation until shortly before this, and yet some have said they were not aware of any until the girl died.
The 911 tape disturbs me--it sounds to me to be a case for the above mentioned neglect.
In any case, that child is lost. Sadly, no matter what a through investigation shows--that fact does not change. I hope that the facts are carefully sorted out-and if punishment is warranted it is applied.