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Spankings as discipline
Filed under: Toddlers Preschoolers, Development/Milestones: Babies
It's one of the reasons I refuse to spank/beat/whatever-word-you-like my kid, and to be honest, it's the same reason I don't think anyone else should, either. Who has the temperament and self-control to be trusted never to cross the line between discipline and abuse? You? Are you sure about that? I'd want to be pretty sure myself, but that's just me.I read the above in a blog post by the always-talented blogger and now Fancy Published Author Rob Rummel-Hudson and it perfectly articulates my feelings on spankings as a form of discipline.
To me, if a transgression is spank-worthy, I've probably already passed the point where I can trust myself to dole out an appropriate (if there even is such a thing) physical punishment. If my toddler has committed the sort of crime where I feel a spanking is the only option to truly drive home my message, well, I don't think I should be hitting him while I'm in that frame of mind. Because I'm probably furious. Or terrified (ie, he's just run into traffic). Or frustrated because he's not listening, or reacting because he's just purposefully done something to anger me.
I remember an incident not too long ago when I was trying to get him into his pajamas and he was cranky and resisting and thrashing around and he kicked me more than once, until I just lost my temper and took hold of his legs and gripped him too hard while yelling at him to STOP! KICKING! and I could feel myself wanting to smack him. To smack my little boy -- for being tired and grouchy and 2.5 years old -- it hurts my heart and shames me to even type that.
I believe in discipline and I'm no wuss about making my kid unhappy if that's what the situation warrants (being given a time out, for instance), but I don't want to resort to hitting him. I don't want him to get the message that that's how we resolve problems, for one thing, and I don't want to feel out of control when I'm dealing with him.
Tell me, how do you feel about spankings?
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ReaderComments (Page 5 of 8)
4-22-2008 @ 3:19PM
Alis said...Amen G~
Every child is different. I know I've raised 3. Each had to be taught right from wrong in a different manner. The trick is to find what worked with each. There is no such thing as "One way of parenting fits all".
4-22-2008 @ 10:17AM
Jenny said...Though there are plenty of opinions already here, I just would like to share mine. As a grown adult, I just can't imagine raising a hand to a little kid. Whether a baby, or a school-age child. For one thing, I just don't get the argument of "it's not alright to hit, so I'm going to hit you". And though so many people out there turned out "just fine, JUST FINE" from being spanked, a lot turned out just fine also from NOT being spanked. Also, it's pretty ballsy (and crappy) to assume that anyone knows what anyone else's alternatives to spanking are. There are not just two forms of discipline, spanking or screaming.
In the same breath, I am not the perfect parent and won't even try to claim to be. There are times that I want to spank my two year old daughter, there are times where I want to scream at her. There are times where it takes everything I have to NOT do these things. But, I just simply don't want to hit my kids. Ever.
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4-22-2008 @ 10:55AM
Shawna said...I like g~'s comment. It was a refreshing change from all the ones that are black and white on this thread.
For the record, I remember swattings and spankings being administered to my sister and I only a few times collectively in our household growing up. I remember clearly why they happened, as well as feeling like they were deserved sometimes (I was swatted for kicking my sister in the head) and not others (my sister was spanked by my dad for eating a peach after my mother had told her not to - my mom totally told off my dad when she found out though). I do know that their rarity is what made them stand out in my memory though, and I don't hold them against my parents.
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4-22-2008 @ 12:19PM
Amber said...I love what G said - what a great comment to sum up what this entire post has devolved into. Apparently, this is an issue that can be hashed and rehashed and all of that will only serve to cause the people on the non-spanking side of the fence to claim that spanking is abuse - but it's ok to verbally spank the people who disagree because you're making a POINT. Meanwhile, the people on the pro-spanking side of the fence will voice their opinions as well, and be written off as stupid because their chosen method of discipline must mean that they are too ignorant to figure out another method.
I will say this - there are many people on here who were spanked as children and who choose not to spank - I am one of them. Not because I'm damaged or traumatized or because my bond with my mother was damaged - none of that is true. I'm a different person than my (awesome) mom and I make my own parenting decisions. As adults, we choose to break negative cycles or we don't - some people rise above adversity and some people choose to wallow in it, and I doubt there is any evidence to strongly support that the wallowers were "victims" of spankings. My dad was beaten - fists, belts, the works - by my grandfather, and yet? My dad is the gentlest, most loving dad a kid could ask for. He never laid a hand on us and he has never EVER made the excuse that his shortcomings are because of his childhood abuse.
So maybe as adults having a discussion, people could be respectful of each other's opinions and not make assumptions that the people who raised us were monsters, that we are incompetent parents or that our children are afraid of us. Because like G said, is that what we want to teach our kids? That physical violence is unnacceptable, but verbal violence is ok? Because that's what I have seen from many of the commenters here and it's sad.
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4-22-2008 @ 1:21PM
Amanda said...Mamaloo is right. It is the pro-spankers that are using "third grade" logic and it is just sad, tragic, and well, typical.
Slapping an 18-month-old's hand is abusive and counter-productive. Someone asked how else could you discipline an undesired behavior. Certainly not by reasoning? Well, of course not. Are reasoning and physical abuse the only two options? People, that is why WE are the adults and THEY are the children. It is our job to secure their environment, help them explore the world (within limits of safety, etc.) and create stimulating, SAFE places for play and learning.
Spanking is for adults, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with teaching a child. Unless you consider fear and hurt a good lesson.
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4-22-2008 @ 1:53PM
Jessica said...Linda, I don't lose your temper and hit b/c I don't spank when I'm angry.
You sound like you already lose your patience with Riiley quite often, shaking him, screaming at him, etc., as you have stated.
We NEVER hit our daughter out of anger. There is a PROCESS to our discipline and spanking is part of that process. No shaking, no swatting, no yelling....ever. We give her opportunities, apply other discipline techniques, then finish with spanking and explanation as to why. It is never heat of the moment. Lots of things can happen in the heat of the moment if you give in to that moment, like shaking your child.
You're behavior is much worse than mine. I will never hit my child out of anger......you just might b/c it sounds like you don't know how to control your temper. I would be much more worried about that than whether or not OTHER people spank.
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4-22-2008 @ 2:13PM
Dawn said...Just to be clear Jessica, your behavior (spanking your child) is acceptable because you only hit her when you aren't angry but Linda's behavior (not spanking her child) is worse because she's angry and does not hit her child but admits to thinking about it?
4-22-2008 @ 2:22PM
Jessica said...No, Dawn, you're not sure. I believe it is worse to lose your temper with your child(with anyone).....more dangerous to do so, than to apply a well reasoned and calm spank on the bum.
4-22-2008 @ 3:28PM
Robert Rummel-Hudson said...Jessica, are you aware of the research that shows a lowered heart rate during acts of extreme violence by clinically identified sociopaths? Why is everyone so impressed by how calm and "reasoned" they are when they are inflicting pain on children?
And I know, we're all supposed to say "every parent has their own way, and we should respect that", but honestly, is that really true? If someone came on here saying they punish their kids with cigarette burns, how many people would really say "well, whatever works in your home"?
No, I'm not equating spanking with burning or scarring a child. But when you get right down to it, now we're just arguing about the DEGREE of pain, fear and humiliation being inflicted.
If you've decided that a little pain and a little fear is appropriate for your kid, then fine. You might even be right about that. But don't sugarcoat it or pretend that you're doing something besides modifying a child's behavior through the application of pain and intimidation. And don't expect other people who have a different idea of where that line should be drawn to be excessively polite in the expression of their opinion.
Because personally, if I were a child being hurt by a well-meaning parent, I'd want someone to be impolite on my behalf.
4-22-2008 @ 5:01PM
Nita said..."it is never in the heat of the moment"?
So you wait for a few minutes or hours after you have tried all other tactics, and then go ahead and spank your child well after the issue is gone? That really seems cold and slightly psychotic to me. Only a true sociopath or psychopath can dole out physical punishment while "calm".
Linda is atypical parent of a typical busy spirited boy. Yes she loses her temper and yes she may yell at Riley but who doesn't once in a while? Parenting is a slipperly slope for all of us - but I truly appreciate that you and SKL seem to think that they are perfect. In some cases so perfect at raising their kids they shove them off to a Nanny and work at home.
4-22-2008 @ 2:05PM
Jeff said...I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I just have some questions for the pro-spankers.
1. I'm assuming one purpose of spanking is to inflict pain on the child. The whole purpose of punishment is to teach the child cause and effect (what happens when they break the rules). Is it safe to assume that when you spank you fully intend to inflict some degree of pain? Because without inflicting pain with the spanking, what then is the point of it?
2. By inflicting pain, do you feel the net result of the cause and effect of misbahving is driven by fear? What I mean is, people generally don't like pain and it's normal to fear pain I think.
3. If yes to #2, do you feel that fear is the best way to teach children right from wrong or to follow the rules?
4. In what other ways do you feel fear helps people in general?
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4-22-2008 @ 3:19PM
Alis said...I'm not commenting on spanking or not either but to answer your question on Fear.
Fear can be used as a productive tool in some circumstances. Fear of someone or something is not negative. (Unless it has been used as a tool for intimidation) Fear is a healthy response to dangerous situations.
Teaching how to introduce that fear to a child in a positive manner is really what is the source of what is going on here. (At least that is what I see). But fear in itself is not a bad thing.
It is healthy to fear an oncoming car. It is healthy to fear a stranger. It is healthy to fear (add any other life endangering or injuring event here). And because all children are unique individuals, parents use different tactics of instilling those fears so that the child can learn how to react to those types of situations.
The problem I see is that we focus more on the means of the how than on whether or not the lesson was taught.
Ex: If a child keeps heading towards a busy road and you've repeatedly used (insert means of discipline or teaching tool). Than it obviously isn't working and a new tactic has to be used.
Now if the child isn't running towards the car due to fear of what his/her parent will do... than, I feel, the lesson of fearing that oncoming car and how to react or prevent was not taught.
There is a fine balance in teaching a child to be fearful of a situation than being fearful of a parent.
I hope that all made sense. :o)
4-23-2008 @ 12:09AM
Meagan said...I agree with what you're saying here Alis... and I am also not really pro or anti spanking. I do think though that the point many pro-spankers are trying to make, and one that I do agree with in this case, is that if you've tried various types of discipline to keep your kid from running out into the road, and they don't work, so you resort to spanking, and the child then avoids running out into the road not because they're afraid of the cars but because they're scared you'll hit them again... it doesn't MATTER because they are no longer running out into the road. I get that kids shouldn't be afraid of their parents, but sometimes you just gotta make sure your kid doesn't run into the road.
And I can't BELIEVE I just commented when there are more than a hundred comments already. :-p
4-22-2008 @ 3:04PM
Tammy said...Both of my girls are teenagers now and when they were small they absolutely got a swat on the butt when they misbehaved. Mostly for dangerous things - like trying to shove a pen in an electrical socket or running out towards the road. Short sharp immediate pain to deter is generally better than electrocution. But there were times when they got a swat for general misbehaving.
If someone can raise their child to be respectful and well behaved by different methods than I applaud them. But I do find it hard to believe that you can 'talk' to a 2 year old. How can a toddler appreciate that they could be killed when they don't even understand the concept of death? They do understand 'ouch'. If I touch that - my butt hurts...hey perhaps I'll just go play with this instead. It works.
When my parents were children, spankings were the norm. Not only that but it wasn't limited to just parents. The family friend, the neighbor, neighborhood cop, and teacher would just as happily clip some rowdy kid across the ear for misbehaving, whether they were their child or not. Now look at the crime statistics from the 50's compared to now. Teens have no boundaries and no respect for authority. Teachers are being beaten in class by their own students! Teen pregnancy is out of control and teen crime is at an all time high.
Now maybe...just maybe if someone had put a boot up some of those kids asses when they needed it....
ya know...jus sayin..
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4-22-2008 @ 3:08PM
Robert Rummel-Hudson said..."Teens have no boundaries and no respect for authority. Teachers are being beaten in class by their own students! Teen pregnancy is out of control and teen crime is at an all time high."
And you believe the answer is more violence, taught from the very beginning of the child's self-awareness? Really? Do you have any sense of history, of how oppressed people deal with violence as a tool of control in the long term? Because I have to say, that's one hell of a parenting model you're putting together.
4-22-2008 @ 10:27PM
Amy said...I am not going to get into the whole spanking vs. not spanking thing. However, I want to tell a little story...
My daughter was pretending to have a kitten in her hands the other day, and she "showed" it to my dad, who playfully popped her on the bottom of her hands (as though he was knocking the kitten up and out of her hands, he didn't smack her on the hand as though she'd reached for the stove).
She shook her head and said, "That was inappropriate."
She will be three in August.
I take exception to people who say you can't talk to/reason with/discuss things with two year olds. Because even if your two year old can't tell you what he's thinking, it's proven that receptive language starts long before expressive language.
In other words, they understand you LONG before you understand them.
Amy @ http://prettybabies.blogspot.com
4-22-2008 @ 3:25PM
Tammy said...Oppressed people? Seriously? We're talking about kids and a swat on the butt here - not beatings with a nail studded belt. So I'm going to go ahead and sidestep your 'parenting model' insult and tell you that I am perfectly happy with my parenting skills :o).
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Times have changed. There is a severe lack of respect for authority, from teens nowadays. Teachers have little to no control over classrooms. Just the other day I watched a video on the news that had been posted on youtube of a student beating the hell out of her teacher while the other students stood and cheered. Sadly, that is not an isolated case. There is something SERIOUSLY wrong with that.
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4-22-2008 @ 3:35PM
Robert Rummel-Hudson said...I'm not sure that YOUR happiness with your parenting skills are really the issue.
And for someone who considers herself to be so well-schooled in the tragic ills of modern society, you seem willfully ignorant of how many people are out there using what they think of as reasonable force on their kids (the ever-charming and oft-quoted "swat on the butt" notwithstanding) and have crossed over into what most of us would describe as abuse. Ask them if they think they're abusing their kids. See how many of them are answering that question in a court of law.
I mean, I know, they're just KIDS, not oppressed people. I still have this silly aversion to hurting them.
4-22-2008 @ 3:34PM
Allie said...I love how almost everyone is against spanking and yet the verbal abuse to some people on here is just down right sickening to me. This is just me but I would never judge a person from one comment they left on a parenting site with I don't know them personally nor do I know how they live or what their children are like. Can't a person state their opinion without getting abused for it?
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4-22-2008 @ 3:55PM
Tammy said...I have to agree Allie.
I was under the impression that this was a discussion between adults. I was also under the impression that people are actually entitled to hold different opinions - In fact isn't what this blog is encouraging? A discussion?
I said nothing about being 'well schooled' in anything. I merely watch the news and see the differences in our society over the years. My own observations. I can also ONLY comment on the 'swat on the butt' because this is all I have used.
You might want to note that I also stated in my original comment that I applaud anyone who can teach a child to be respectful and well behaved by other methods. I am merely offering another view and questioning whether or not lessened corporal punishment is a factor in the lack of respect to authority by kids/teens.
I do believe that you are confusing child abuse with spanking. As much as you would like to put 'a swat on a diapered or clothed butt' in the same corner as beating a child. You just can't. It is not the same.
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