PD*Poll: The ten-year-old college kid
Categories: Kids 8-11, Education
If you asked me, I'd say that, yeah, my kids are pretty smart. My son Jared entered kindergarten reading at a second-grade level and both he and my daughter, Sara, picked up on one-to-one correspondence pretty early. Still, I've got at least another decade before six-year-old Jared even starts to think about college.Not so the parents of Moshe Kai Cavalin. At ten-years-old, he's already in his second second year at East Los Angeles College and has plans to transfer to a four-year university next year. Cavalin plans to study astrophysics and is very interested in the concept of wormholes. "Just like black holes, they suck in particulate objects, and also like black holes, they also travel at escape velocity, which is, the speed to get out of there is faster than the speed of light," Cavalin says. "I'd like to prove that wormholes are really there and prove all the theories are correct." That's pretty fancy talk for a pre-teen.
While I have no doubt about Cavalin's ability to handle the learning side of college, I worry about the social side. I have a brother who went to university at sixteen and had difficulty dealing with twenty-year-olds drinking and acting like, well, college kids. I just hope his parents plan to address that side of the college experience and help him deal with it appropriately.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Carolyn 5-15-2008 @ 2:39PM
That seems pretty sad. I understand that he must be a very gifted child, but he'll miss out on so many of the great things about growing up. And so many of the things that are possibly essential to living a happy, balanced life as an adult.
The other thing that is really sad is that I have no idea what he's talking about and I am a grown woman who went to university! Particulate objects? Escape velocity? Huh? I hate it when 10-year-olds are smarter than me! :)
Carolyn
http://www.momsontheedge.ca
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Meagan 5-15-2008 @ 3:41PM
Part of the problem is that often times kids like this aren't really capable of having a "normal" childhood. If you (we/they/whoever) forced him to stay at grade level (or even within a few grade levels) can you actually imagine a kid who talks about "Particulate objects" in an average conversation being able to relate to his peers?
lIZ 6-06-2008 @ 8:01AM
First and foremost, if you had a ten year old going to college, you would not - I say, would not, leave on the dorm! He would absolutely have to live at home. He is still in need of motherly and fatherly attention! Also, he will pick his friends from college and they will come over to visit. He will also still your guidance with pre-teen and parental conversations, I quess!
I wish the family the best and I hope the young man solve problems that will make a difference in health care or other worldly positive concerns.
Debbie 6-06-2008 @ 8:23AM
Many years ago I was one of those children that was bight and pushed ahead in school. I was not 10 years old and in college, I was 15 and in college however you do loose your childhood. Now I am 39 years old with 11-year-old very bright twins. When my twins were just 6 years old they were tested when we moved and they transferred schools. Both of my girls scored 131 on the IQ test, and the school board wanted to advance them. From my past experience of not having a childhood I would not allow that to happen. I want my daughters to enjoy their childhood and to be kids for as long as they want to be. My daughters do not feel cheated; they thank my everyday that I allowed them to be kids.
I am not threatened by my children's intelligence; I am a very proud mother that my girls are very bright. I do know from experience that advancing a child through school and not allowing him or her to be a kid HURTS them. The 10-year-old in this story should still be in elementary school, playing on the playground and just being a kid. You are only a kid once so if you have a bright child let them be a kid for as long as you can, there’s plenty of time in the future to be a grown up. I am not stating that the parent of a bright child should not challenge the child; they should however still let him or her be a kid.
Teresa 6-06-2008 @ 8:46AM
I would have to disagree. I went to a relatively calm state university and had several 7-12 year olds taking classes there. They were always accompanied by a parent. When you talk to them they sound their age, unless you ask them more advanced questions, in which case, they blow you away and the questions, although lay people usually can't even think of these questions unless they are in that field. There are special groups for child geniuses where they can interact together with others their age. If you've not seen them play, you wouldn't know the difference, they aren't defunct on the social scale, provided the parents integrate them as normal children. There is a lot to learn at their age, but they are not going off to college alone, living in a dorm with a rocker roommate, many live at home and travel with chaperone to their classes. Some of them are still in primary school but are granted special permission to do half-day.
Enriching a child's mind is what we must do to keep up with our fast paced world. Everyday kid's are learning to make websites and using html before high school, most kids know more about technology than there parents ever have.
Marie 6-06-2008 @ 9:25AM
It's "smarter than I " (Think: smarter than I (am).... If you finish your statement you'll realize that it uses the I.)
Hint: if it follows the words "like, as, than" you always use I, he, she, they, we.
(It's called using the nominative case vs the objective case of me, him, her, them, us)
Example: They are as smart as we (are).
You wouldn't say, they are as smart as us.
Cathie 6-06-2008 @ 12:07PM
I do not think a 10 yr old should be in college. They are going to miss out on a lot of life skills . Yes , he or she may be smart enough to be those classes but there is so many online colleges that they can do if they chose to be challanged but go to regular schools during the day..
PopArt24 6-06-2008 @ 11:14AM
In my opinion, getting to skip a grade (or 10) is an awesome opportunity. From experience, I know from experience that taking regular classes when your iq is off the wall is mind-crushingly boring. Fortunately, I discovered the magic of Advanced Placement classes early on in high school, college level classes for high school students. Without a challenge, smart kids are going to end up getting in trouble and will not meet their full potential. Have you ever seen the shirt 'Genius by birth, slacker by choice' ? It's the slogan of many gifted children. And I don't mean to be so harsh on your post, but I'm VERY opinionated.
caron 5-15-2008 @ 11:07PM
It's people like this who make me feel really UNintelligent. I had to study my tail off to get through college when I was of normal age!
http://www.whatiknow-caron.blogspot.com
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NST 5-16-2008 @ 8:38AM
I agree that these kids social development skills will be hindered as they increase their education. However, the capacity to learn at such a high degree and be involved in solving some of the greatest mysteries in science is a huge benefit of mankind.
Parents should be involved with these kids and really try to alleviate some of the social problems that will occur. I believe that there are statistics that show that smart kids like these do burn out by the time they finish college.
There are kids who do become successful and become professors. One such example is a professor who is 19 years old who is studying physics. Another professor in CA is studying problems associated with prime numbers.
Also, anyone can talk about "particulate objects" or any other complicated concept in normal conversation. What it takes is for the listeners to be open to hear new things and the speaker to do an excellent job of explaining these concepts in laymans terms. Just look at the show "Numbers", which explains very complicated mathematical terms on a weekly basis.
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Kristi 6-05-2008 @ 2:50PM
I doubt the parents of a 10-year old are going to ship him off to the dorms to live during college. Heck, a 10-year old can't even drive to his own classes yet. But that doesn't mean that he shouldn't be there. If I were the parent in this case, I would be trying very hard to make sure that the 10-year old was involved in 10-year appropriate social activities--soccer, dance, scouts, whatever the kid shows an interest in. They will have tough times. 18 year olds who go to college have tough times too, and everyone's experiences are different. Let the kid work on the academics now, because lord knows that when his hormones kick in a few years from now, he's going to be checking out the girls like everyone else.
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deana 6-06-2008 @ 7:43AM
Hi MK. I was happy to read about you because I know an extremely gifted 7 year old boy who I would like to see enroll in college. You just keep on studying those wormholes and having fun. The average person has a hard time knowing how to think about and relate to someone whose thinking ability is so advanced, and tends to focus on the "social" consequences of separation from age-mates. What they do not realize is that your age-mates are not your peers. My little friend feels sorely out of place, even in a 5th grade classroom. Do you know how your parents helped you to gain acceptance into college? If you do, and can perhaps post something about it?
PS-I agree with you that our nation is in a state of decline, similar to the Fall of Rome. Best wishes to you!! DK
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Bill West 6-06-2008 @ 8:08AM
Someone please take this kid away to a farm for the summer, and just let him learn to be a kid...I'd take him fishing first.
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luckypucky1 6-08-2008 @ 5:33PM
Bill, and all who think these children should be given a "childhood"... I have a 15 yr. old daughter who was tested at the age of 7. Off the charts (ceilinged one IQ test, requiring the tester to use another one to determine what her IQ might possibly be). Scary as all get out for a parent who just wanted to have a "normal" life. I learned that "normal" is completely relative. She couldn't speak the same language as her age mates. She wanted to talk in her accelerated vocabulary (I did NOT "push" her or "force" her......she just is who she is, talks how she talks), wanted to discuss her complex ideas and questions, wanted to LEARN at her own pace. Her pace and learning style are different from other kids, but her desire to play and be a child were not. The challenges and complexities of raising a child like this cannot and should not be judged or underestimated. As her parent I hated hearing that I was somehow "pushing" her, or forcing her to do work above her ability level, because the truth of it is that I was the one who was pushed and forced, kicking and screaming (sometimes literally into my pillow so no one would hear) by her, to provide not "age appropriate" but ability-appropriate challenge for her. She was accepted to college (a prestigious 4-year private school) last year, at the age of 14 but SHE decided not to attend for many reasons. I feel honored to have been given the responsibility of raising this amazing child to adulthood, but it has in no way been easy, mostly because of the judgement I have received from people who cannot possibly fathom the reality of our lives. Please don't judge -- please respect that parents actually DO know their children best, respect that each and every one of us, children included, have vastly different needs, and the parents of these interesting children do everything in their power to raise good citizens of the world (but that "raising" may look completely different than what others do to reach the same result -- happy, healthy, fulfilled adulthood).
Ericka 6-06-2008 @ 8:20AM
I am glad to see that this child has parents who aren't trying to make this child fit the status quo, rather than expanding on his talents and trying to challenge him to be the best he can be.
I was a gifted child who didn't get that challenge. Believe me, it is a dangerous thing to try and conform a child to society's standards. I was constantly reminded of how different I was from most others and, as a direct result, ended up getting into trouble, and then addicted to heroin.
Now, I have been clean for 9 years, married for 10, have three great and wonderful children, and am a full-time college student. I have one child who is four- he is reading and is incredibly talented mathematically. He can add and subtract and is constantly sponging new thoughts and concepts. I am fortunate in that I can use my experience to challenge him to do the best he can and be the best he can (all my children get that same challenge). We just have to remember that just because his intelligence quotient is through the roof doesn't mean he isn't a four-year old developmentally and socially.
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Jacky 6-06-2008 @ 10:00AM
I'm 100% with you on this. I was very gifted and moved at the age of 10 to a country/school system that couldn't or wouldn't recognize that fact, even though my parents had reams of proof.
As a result, I spent my school years in constant trouble because of boredom and didn't even complete high school. Later government testing (in my mid-thirties) showed that I was off the charts in both right and left brain capabilities. I ma. .y have been capable of following any career path I chose, but I was alienated from society by that time.
My parents were very naive and did nothing about what happened to me. Being challenged in the school system would have probably saved me from a life of frustration, depression, lack of self-worth and other mental problems. I still, in my sixties, can't form a close relationship with anyone or keep my life in order.
I think if a child has the intelligence and WANTS to learn at an advanced rate, then the child's wishes should be followed
Laurence A. Becker, Ph.D. 6-06-2008 @ 8:25AM
I have worked for over forty years with gifted learners (over thirty years with savants--see www.savantsyndrome.com). Every person seeks a peer group, even a ten year old in college. Age is not a peer group. To believe so is one of the problems with our current educational system. There is a wonderful film, LITTLE MAN TATE, that embodies some of the problems involved with a highly gifted child. Also, investigate The Indigo Children. I would urge the parents to check out www.rethinkingeducation.com to learn about a wonderful conference being held this year in Dallas September 4-8, 2008. It is 24/7 creativity and learning across every age group from toddlers to grandparents. It is for non-schoolers and home schoolers, but everyone (even us neuro-typicals) are welcome.
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Mary Alice 6-06-2008 @ 10:26AM
The smaller rural schools of the middle of the last century provided excellent teachers and the opportunity to participate in many activities and to take "overloads" of classes. Because we were all neighbors we had learned to interact at an early age. Our parents were savvy enough to point out the strengths in each. I did enter college at 16, had completed BS in just over 3 years (as did my brother) and was teaching by age 20. A mentor system, whether formal or informal, helps to keep the intellect involved and searching for problems to solve and new areas of adventure to explore. I think today's bum rap for gifted education comes from the desire of many to prevent elitism in a public school. Having taught gifted in that setting, it is a hard sell to include or exclude on a basis of limited identifying characteristics. Residence in a University community can soften the "different" identification of the "profoundly" gifted. It also permits the student to interact with adults who have also been identified as "profoundly" gifted. Their insights help to even the chaotic life of many who are seeking to be "normal." These gifted youngsters are the life and hope of our world. It is they who will develop new strategies to solve our emerging problems. They deserve to have the opportunity to do so. Some of the more successful programs I have observed are those which permit the student to remain in neighborhood school for the bulk of the school week, and to :"enrich" the other days at a more central location: a community college or University campus. It could also be at the county seat in more rural areas, or at a "district office" in a larger suburb or city. Certainly a psychologist should be on the staff or consultant basis to assure and monitor the mental health, not just the intellectual health of the students. Some of the markers for gifted and creative are also markers for ADHD and BiPolar disorder. It takes a professional or two to determine which is which. I would also recommend that those who specialize in any of these discipdlines: ADHD, BiPolar, Creative, Gifted, also become familiar enough with current research in each of the others to be able to adjust to each of the related possibilities. Our brilliant students, regardless of age, should have their educational needs and interests satisfied without labelling them as weird or "sick."
Steven Poteat 6-06-2008 @ 8:27AM
That kid needs to learn how to deal with people and he will NEVER learn it at college at his age. Keep him home!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jennifer Rowles 6-06-2008 @ 8:28AM
I have a gifted child. We would not send him to early. He is very bright but we want a well rounded adult. Even as an adult these kids peers are never going to be his true peers. The very gifted need to know how to interact and communicate with the rest of us. If they don't learn it all of those amazing gifts they have been given maybe wasted. And even the truly gifted kids wanted to ride a bike and throw water balloons in the summer
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