Kids treated like smokers on planes
Categories: In the news
Last month a mom traveling with four kids, including an autistic son and a daughter with cerebral palsy, were detained in Phoenix and not permitted to board their connecting flight to Seattle because her kids were unruly on the previous flight.
However you feel about that incident, a recent study says that 85% of those polled believe that airlines should have a section reserved for adults traveling with children. When I first heard this statistic, I was initially indignant. Our society calls for tolerance of all types of people. What about kids? Should they be segregated like smokers, their cries the equivalent of carcinogenic second-hand smoke? The quality of air travel has declined enough without being forced to sit every flight in the back of the plane next to the smelly bathrooms.
Besides, one of the things I love about air travel is being mixed in with business travelers, teens, and senior citizens. Not being segregated is good for kids. How else will they learn to behave in "mixed" company? It's the same problem I have with dining out. If kids don't do it they'll never know. Ditto for restaurants that limit kid's menu options to fried finger foods that never require them to expand their palate or use a knife. At some point we have to civilize them.
But then I recalled my worst trip ever. I was traveling with my baby and three year-old and we had the misfortune of being seated next to a man who made no bones about his displeasure at being seated next to us - all this before my kids had even done anything. As karma would have it, he was treated to an inconsolable baby. Plus, my three year old uncharacteristically peed on her seat while sleeping. The seat was soaked and the airline blanket I subsequently put under her (what else could I do?) did nothing to mask the smell of urine for the remaining two hours of the flight. Needless to say, it was a long trip to Phoenix.
While I secretly felt that the grumpy old guy deserved it, the truth is that the entire situation was made worse because he was totally stressing me out. If I had been seated next to another parent with kids, I would have probably been more relaxed and better able to calm down my infant. Also, when I think back on my own childhood traveling memories, I recall looking for the other kids on the flight. Kids think it's fun to be around other kids and seating them together may encourage them to make friends and entertain each other (rather than kick the back of some poor soul's seat out of boredom).
When I got over my parental defensiveness, I realized that perhaps someones over-priced, over-cramped trip to Minneapolis is not the place for me to do my "civilizing." A family section on airplanes is a good idea and much like Chuck E Cheese's, one of the many little indignities that parents just have to accept and endure.
For more on Rachel visit her website at www.rachelcamposduffy.com.
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Chere 8-26-2008 @ 9:12AM
Although the idea of any type of segregation makes me shudder, i think i agree with you. Having a seperate area for adults that have children may be a good idea for both the other passengers and the families onboard. Everyone has the right to have a comfortable flight and this may be a step in the right direction. As you said in your situation when you were flying to Phoenix, if you had been seated next to someone who had children they most likely would have understood which would have led to a more pleasant experience for everyone involved.
I think that people should have a little more tolerance and patience, however that is not something that can enforced but a seperate area can. Interesting topic.
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Steve 8-27-2008 @ 8:00AM
I am so tired of this, meaning the statement you made that "we have to civilize them." No, "we" do not have to civilize the out of control little bastards running amok on planes, grocery stores, malls etc., their paretns do. We have the right and pay dearly for that right to sit on a plane, shop or whatever without being subjected to someone else's out of control kids and that includes the slap on the butt that so many parents are fond of doing in public which just raises the decible level of the kids screams to just shy of a F-16 at full military power take off! Section them off, no quesiton about it on planes. Make them board first and let them come off last so I don't have to be tripping over one of kids who has decided their legs don't work on airplanes or in the jet way and the parents are dragging them in front of me. The airline that wouldn't let the unruly kids board, good for them and that is the law by the way. Read the FAA guidelines about boarding passengers, it does say that unruly passengers are not to be boarded and it does not specify age or what type of unruliness is going on. Keep the drunks off, the weirdos who are talkng to themselves, the ones that stink because they don't bathe, the ones that are too fat to sit in their seat and buckle their belt with an extension or their flab hangs over into my space and the damn kids who are out of control. Flying, shopping, traveling in general would be much more relaxing at least until you have to deal with the TSA people!
Karenjean 8-26-2008 @ 9:23AM
Keep the kids away from the rest of us!
I was on a plane with my husband (our kids did not go with us) and spent four hours with a little %^&* kicking the back of my seat while her ineffective dad did nothing. Her mom sat happily in another section of the plane and gave me a big smile as we got off the plane, thrilled that I had been stuck with her little %^&* while she got a mini vacation. I called her every curse word I know in front of Little Sweetums (and I have a HUGE vocabulary), who then asked her mother was a c$%t was, and started sing-songing every word I said. Mommy paid dearly for that four hours of freedom as that little brat called out obsenities to her shocked grandparents in front of the entire airport and it was left to her to explain how Little Sweetums had expanded her vocabulary.
On the flight back, the family in front of us had a little one. Bags are stowed under the seat in front of you; I went for my purse and found a used diaper stuffed in it.
I opened it and shoved it in the father's face (he was sitting directly in front of me so clearly he was the one who dumped his kid's dump in my purse) so he got a faceful of his own kid's poop.
He could not very well tell the flight attendant that it was my diaper since we had no kids and he had one, so that was the end of that.
The family was told they could no longer fly on that airline.
If people insist on flying with kids, they should be made to sit together and torture each other, not the rest of us.
I keep my kids under control; why can't anyone else?
And don't give me that special needs crap; one of my daughters IS special needs and she knows to shut up and sit still or she doesn't go. Most special needs parents use that as an excuse to let the kid run wild; they let them loose on the public so they can get a break from their kid. We don't sic her on others so we can eat in peace. She is our responsibility. She still has accountability and she knows it. Some are just too lazy to put in the work it takes to control a special needs child.
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ame s 8-26-2008 @ 10:28AM
Oh, you are liable to be seriously bashed by later comments, but I applaud you! It is NEVER acceptable for a parent to expect anyone else to have to deal with their children. Good show!
beth 8-27-2008 @ 9:58AM
And you are proud of yourself for that behavior? I would rather have been near the disruptive child for an overseas flight than near you, an ignorant, classless "lady" for a twenty minute puddle jump. The airlines need to have a separate section for you on the plane, oh yea they do have one, it's called the baggage section with the other animals.
Jo 8-28-2008 @ 2:57PM
My, my, my...a mother of four is proud of herself for teaching a small child how to curse and say inappropriate phrases...you must sleep well at night. Further, your comment that your special needs child knows to "shut up" is equally impressive...how proud you must feel...did you use your "extensive vocabulary" on her as well? Grow up, get some manners, and then maybe YOU will be fitting to mingle with the rest of the grown ups in the world...shame on you.
Karenjean 8-28-2008 @ 7:27PM
Wow, Jo. Your reading comprehension skills truly suck.
I said I was on a plane for four hours, not that I had four children. I said that my daughter knew when to shut up, not that I told her to shut up.
I hope you don't help your kids with their homework; everything they turned in would be a hopeless muddle.
And for the record for all of you imbeciles out there (lookin' at YOU Michelle) where the the word PROUD come from?
That would be from all of you, the assumers.
It was a series of factual events. People dumped on me; they got dumped on back. Tit for tat.
For the record, I was cheered by my fellow passengers over the diaper incident and as for the simpering idiot who let her kid kick me for four hours (uh, THAT'S what the "four" was, Jo) while she took a mini-vacation from her own kid, other mothers came up to me and applauded my courage for making that lazy mom pay.
And I sleep great, thanks for asking. I am the CFO of a company and while most companies are hanging by a thread, we are in great financial shape. Not a single layoff and we are actually hiring while nearly everyone else in the field is going down the tubes.
For the ignorant, the "F" in CFO is "FINANCIAL" so our fiscal good health is ALL ME, BABY.
Hundreds of families have parents with jobs and food on the table because I don't shy away from making the tough decisions.
Yep. Sleep like a baby. My lambs are safe.
Sara 8-31-2008 @ 4:37PM
Wow - I feel sorry for your 'special needs' child (if you do so have one). Considering the way your attitude is towards children in general, I wouldn't be surprised if your special needs child is really 'special needs' or just the outcome of 'your type' of parenting. You probably have kids whose mouths naturally spout off foul language seeming you were quite comfortable to utter such language in front of a young child - and maybe yours do behave in public...only cause their scared to death of being locked up in the basement cupboard for three days when they get home without any food and drink.
Sorry, but that’s the virtual impression you give off: an uncompassionate parent who ‘probably’ has scary parenting tactics, else that co-worker/acquaintance/whatever etc whom you know that you’d really never want to talk to. (Least, that’s the impression I get.)
Judging by your actions towards OPK (other people's kids) I think it would probably be fair to wonder who is watching your kids when you’re out and about - someone who curses and acts classless would be my guess. I find better parents are those who actual parent - rather than those who stick their kids with anyone and everyone so that they can 'act' childless and go frolicking 'round on a regular basis.
As a parent of four children - who I have never needed to worry about how their going to act in public - I have to say that I do still feel some compassion for those who happen to have children who are a bit unruly. I figured this compassion I felt was something that came along with the membership into the parenting club, but I suppose that it is not a quality that everyone is equipped with.
Don't get me wrong - I am a firm believer that parents are to blame for bad kids (also most definitely their kids behavior by a 'certain' age), but your post indicates that well-behaved kids come from two kinds of parents, either 'good people'....or 'the other kind of people' (the kind you wouldn't necessarily want in your neighborhood).
SKL 8-26-2008 @ 9:53AM
I agree. Personally, with two tots, I would pay extra to be guaranteed a spot next to the smelly bathroom. That aside, a plane is unique in that the cranky jerk next to you has no option to get off or move elsewhere. If you are on the ground and your children are too much for someone - for whatever reason - they can usually leave. (And, you can (and should) leave if your child starts acting like a monster at a restaurant or wherever.)
We don't know what is making the person next to us cranky. No sleep for 2 days? A migraine? He's on his way to his mom's funeral? Sensory integration disorder? Why should the burden be on him to adjust?
Little kids are happy to be with other kids. They can learn about grown-up plane etiquette when they are a bit older.
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Mary 8-26-2008 @ 9:59AM
As much as it sucks for those to have children, airlines are businesses, just like any other, and therefore need to do whatever is necessary to make the highest amount of money possible. And if that means segregating or simply banning the children that, honestly, most childless travelers have no interest in sitting with, that's what they should do.
Airline travel is stressful enough, so I would be pretty irritated by screaming children or children who decide to pee all over the place.
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SKL 8-26-2008 @ 10:20AM
I agree that a designated, reserved section probably wouldn't work, but they could have a published policy and seat the people with kids starting from the rear (or wherever). That way people who aren't with kids at least have a chance to sit somewhere else, if they confirm their seats early enough. Kinda like they do now with the exit row.
Mihir 8-26-2008 @ 10:02AM
making a separate area for adults with children will never happen voluntarily. airlines need to sell all their seats to make the paper thin profit they have right now. creating a separate section which may or may not get filled will lose them money and is a horrible idea.
the only way this will happen is if it is government mandated. and, if for some reason the government were to do this (which they won't), we'd see even more airlines in financial troubles.
besides, a little good will on the part of the parents and other passengers goes a long way. i was recently seated next to a mother with an 8 month old. she asked me, "does a crying baby bother you?". i told her "no". she says, "either way, take these", and hands me a couple coupons for free drinks. it wasn't necessary at all, but a nice gesture none the less.
as a side note, the baby cried from the gate until take off. once we reached cruising altitude and the rest of the flight, quiet as a mouse. a nice flight for me, and a couple free drinks to boot!
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Shelly 8-26-2008 @ 10:20AM
I think this would be a great idea! I am all for teaching my children lessons on behavior but I can't think of a more stressful situation than to be "trapped" in a situation where I can't leave if necessary! Whenever we travel with my children we are always relieved if we are seated next to other families so we can exchange the "been there, done that" glances. I love traveling with my family but I am always nervous about the flight. If I could book a trip and know in advance that I would be with other families I think I would travel even more!
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ame s 8-26-2008 @ 10:29AM
Wow, thinking the grumpy old guy got what he deserved was a bit cocky on your part, even though you "took back" the thought later.
I detest flying even under the best of circumstances. Add a crying child and the smell of kid feces/urine, and I am ready to physically assault those parents after I get off the plane.
I think it would be a good idea to make parents flying with children leave a deposit on a credit card, up to double or triple the price of the tickets. If someone's child causes trouble, loud noise, or foul odors, they SHOULD have to pay more.
If a kid keeps kicking the seat in front of them, that should be a $200 fine, with $100 going to the person(s) having to put up with it. A poopy diaper put in my purse!!?? I would want $500, honestly.
I didn't allow my children on a plane until they were 5 and 7, and only did so then because I knew they would sit quietly
My right to a calm, quiet, stench-free flight totally overpowers the "rights" of a parent flying with annoying or smelly children..
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Michelle 8-26-2008 @ 12:37PM
Wait a minute? Rachel is in the wrong because she has a passing THOUGHT of "serves you right"? and you applaud Karenjean for her openly rude behavior? Yes, she should have said something to the 2 sets of parents, but she didn't nave to be such a blatent, flaming bitch about it. Maybe the parent on the flight home heard about her response on the initial flight and wanted to show her what he thought about that. Her rude behavior did not correct the rudeness on behalf of the families.
Nicola 8-26-2008 @ 12:42PM
Wow, ok, so dude who reclines his seat right into my lap, what's the fine for that? Oh, or how about the guy with bad breath in the seat next to me? Disgusting and he just won't stop talking in my direction! Then there's the woman behind me who keeps banging on her tray table in the act of doing whatever it is that she's doing back there. Or the lady across the aisle with the atrocious perfume that makes my eyes water.
Face it, flights are UNCOMFORTABLE. For everyone involved. Adults and kids alike. There isn't enough room, the cabin is stuffy and cramped, the freaking drinks cart is always going up and down the aisle so that you can't even take a little stroll to stretch your legs (or get to the bathroom!). We all do our best. I have seen many children, my son among them on most flights, who delight the other passengers and flight attendants. Who provide a bit of a fun diversion during the long droning hours on the plane.
If you want a first class experience on your next flight -- pay the first class fare. Otherwise, sit back and survive the chaos with the rest of us.
hope 8-27-2008 @ 3:46AM
We've ALL had crappy flying experiences, that's for sure. And yes, we're all entitled to a "calm, quiet, stench-free flight". But you can't limit that to kids. If you've ever sat next to the guy who doesn't seem aware of the concept of deoderant, or the woman with the overpowering stench of perfume, then you know exactly what I mean. And it's not just kids kicking the back of your seat. What about the insensitive jerk who reclines their seat ALL THE WAY? Personally, I NEVER recline my seat, in consideration for the person behind me in the same cramped quarters I'm stuck in. No, I don't want to listen to a screaming kid for 2500 miles, but it's not just kids who are the problem. Air travel has become stressful and downright demeaning, and EVERYONE takes it out on everyone else.
Nicola 8-26-2008 @ 11:00AM
I would LOVE this option. I travel with my son many times a year, long flights, cross country, sometimes overseas. We've been doing it since he was tiny. He adores being with other children. A child friendly part of the plane would be a real treat for him. And I hate being around cranky "your kid just spoke louder than a whisper you obviously cannot control him" glares from people who are simply itching for a fight. Read post number 2 above. People like that. So, offer me a "kids area" on the plane and I'll say, YES PLEASE!
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wanderinglady 8-26-2008 @ 12:34PM
Make that two YES PLEASEs! I've been on two cross-country flights and one overseas flight with my three year old son in the past year. I think a child-friendly section would work for me. Especially when on the last flight we were on, there wasn't a child-appropriate movie being shown. My son would love the chance to meet and play with other children on a long flight. And I would avoid the "stink-eye".
Michelle 8-26-2008 @ 12:42PM
"We don't know what is making the person next to us cranky. No sleep for 2 days? A migraine? He's on his way to his mom's funeral? Sensory integration disorder? Why should the burden be on him to adjust?"
That goes double when it comes to a small child. An adult can communicate why he is in a pissy mood. A child vocalizes his mood by crying or screaming or kicking. I say we start kicking off the grumpy adults. They are ruinining my pleasant traveling experience. Why should I have to adjust to accomodate the cranky adults?
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