Will schools expel children of gays and lesbians?

by Roger Sinasohn (Subscribe to Roger Sinasohn's posts) Oct 29th 2008 4:00PM

Categories: Kids 5-7, Kids 8-11, Teens & Tweens, Gay Parenting, Education, Sex

Proponents of California's proposition 8 have put out a lot of misinformation, focusing mainly on schools; they claim that unless proposition 8 passes, California public schools will have to start teaching kids that they can only marry someone of the same gender as they are. Or something like that. In fact, schools will not suddenly turn into indoctrination factories for young homosexuals, any more so than they forced children to be involved in interracial relationships after the miscegenation laws were struck down.

As this article points out, however, even the passage of proposition 8 won't keep the subject of LGBT families out of the classroom -- unless the intent is to keep the children of gays and lesbians out of the classroom. "What happens," asks Dana Rudolph, "if a child mentions 'when my mommy and mama took me to Disneyland', and another student asks about her family structure?" The fact is, short of expelling the children of LGBT parents, there is no way to keep the subject of same-sex marriage out of the classroom.

That's not what Prop. 8 is really about, however. Its proponents are simply using the old "Oh noes! Won't someone please think of the children?" line to spread FUD -- fear, uncertainty, and doubt -- but really, the kids aren't the ones who have a problem with it. And no matter what you do, there will be discussion of same-sex marriage in the classroom, along with divorce and single parents and kids who live with their great-grandparents and so on. Because the kids are living it.

This post is part of and in support of Write to Marry Day.

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Comments (19)

Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)

Uly 10-30-2008 @ 12:52PM

That's very caring of you. What do you do if a child wants to bring up his or her own family, exactly, and it doesn't fit your hot hell plans?

Ruben 10-29-2008 @ 10:51PM

hey lady I'm sorry but with the hate your showing to your fellow humans you don't deserve to be a teacher im straight as hell but i was also raised to treat and respect others how you wish to be treated and be they gay or straight as far as I'm concerned there human just like me what people do with there own lives is there choice. you call your sell a teacher well go on and continue to teach children how to hate others and treat others with disrespect and as for the family thing you know what most children these days are raised with only 1 parent so as far as I'm concerned as long as there are two parents be they both men or women that child is lucky by today's standards

keezy 11-02-2008 @ 6:03PM

As a teenager with a gay parent, I've learned that love is love, no matter who it is. You call LGBTs deviant? Where in the bible does it say to judge people and discriminate them for something they didn't choose to be? My mother was in a three year relationship with a woman, and I much prefered seeing her happy with someone who I considered family than to see her being lonely.

And to Cindy, it's not saying that you have to tell 5 year olds that "being gay is ok" or teaching them about gay parent families, it's about teaching tolerance to the upcoming generation. I respect your opinions and know where you're coming from, but it makes me sick that they hire teachers that are that ignorant about the issue.

Ruben 10-30-2008 @ 1:18AM

Deviant? I'm sorry but i know straight people who are far more deviant then gays and lesbians and I'm sorry but i've seen kids raised by one parent its not good most of the time and those deviants u talk about are most honest good hearted people then most straight people.

Don 10-30-2008 @ 7:18AM

I'm glad to see you didn't have Cindy or watdafuk as teachers. It shows that teens today are more tolerant of peoples differences

I think one of the above posters names is inappropriate, I'm going to call a troll and report the comment.

Jessica 10-30-2008 @ 10:02AM

Why are people so afraid of their children being exposed to a loving, consentual relationship between two adults? Are you really that afraid that your children are going to turn "gay by association"? Would Jesus love your child any less if they were gay? Would YOU love your child any less if they were gay? I don't understand this desire to spread hatred and intolerance. I thought this was the 21st century. I am so disappointed with the lack of tolerance in California. I thought we were a little more progressive than this. How did this proposition even get on the ballot? I'm baffled. I hope all the intolerant, hateful people in this state move elsewhere when this proposition is voted down. We really don't need such backwards people spreading hatred in our state.

SKL 10-30-2008 @ 11:56AM

If the gay lobby in certain states didn't insist in pushing things so far beyond what most parents can tolerate, there wouldn't be all this reactionary backlash.

Little kids in school don't need to talk about who should and shouldn't have sex or get married. They need to learn how to read and solve age-appropriate problems so that they can think for themselves when this becomes important to them.

Roger, I remind you that most kids in the US don't have classmates with same-sex parents. The city you live in is an anomaly. What works for your neighborhood doesn't work for everyone else, just like the converse is true.

Ruben 10-30-2008 @ 1:23PM

i hate to tell you but that city is not an anomaly its every where just most people won't say anything because of fear of people like that hate filled teacher and what they would do to there children or to there loved ones his city is an anomaly because its not as filled with hate which is a good thing.....

EH 10-31-2008 @ 1:14PM

SKL, Cindy and Wada(loser): (you fearful, ignorant sad people...)

As many as 7.2 million Americans under age 20 are lesbian or gay.

45% of gay males and 20% of lesbians experience physical or verbal assault in high school; 28% of these young people feel forced to drop out of school due to harassment based on sexual orientation.

80% of lesbian and gay youths who took part in a 1987 study reported severe isolation.

Every day, 13 Americans ages 15 to 24 commit suicide. In 1989, suicide was the leading cause of death among gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered youths; 53% of transsexual youths surveyed in 1981 had attempted suicide. Lesbian and gay youths account for up to 30% of all completed suicides among youths.
-----

Considering the above facts you 3 represent those shameful Americans that came before you that we try to forget...those that opposed interracial marriage (especially between blacks & whites) until the laws changed in the 1960's. Those who opposed women from voting. On and on the list goes of fearful IGNORANT hate mongers who judge those different then themselves.
You interpretations of the bible are hypocritical and not everyone believes in the bible thus seperation of religion and government.
I laugh at the day that "nature" provides you one of those you deem so beneath you. Statistics don't lie....many of you hate mongers will and do have homosexual children or relatives. Your judgements are the cause for sucides and evil hate inflicted on this group of humanity.
I am embarrassed to be part of the same evolutionary species that produced you!!!!!!
By the way, Cindy...your family unit didn't work out so well, huh? So glad my daughter was not taught by a hypocritical bigot such as yourself...... :)

SKL 10-31-2008 @ 1:56PM

EH, what did I say against gays? Not one word. Some people close and dear to me are gay. They do not advocate teaching little kids about these things.

You need some counseling.

Juniper 10-30-2008 @ 8:35PM

Good that your daughter is still 17. One less vote for such a ridiculous amendment. It doesn't matter how many amendments are put up for a vote. 20 years in the future, most people will view same sex marriage the way racially mixed marriages are today - no big deal.

You sound a bit judgmental to be a teacher. I think that teachers should be required to leave their personal opinions at the door and just teach. If one day you are required by your school district to add same sex families to a families unit, and you refuse, you should find yourself another job where your narrow-minded opinion won't be such a problem.

EH 10-31-2008 @ 1:23PM

Keezy,

Gladly, you are proof that a successfully loving family with well adjusted happy children comes in all forms.

As for the Cindy's, Skl's and Wad-losers of this world, it's sad these ignorant hateful bigot's still exist in our society. Fortunate for them they won't have to worry about a Halloween costume.... a white sheet with some eyeholes and a KKK sign should do the trick:)

the goddess anna 10-31-2008 @ 2:18PM

My mom is a lesbian; I grew up in an unusual household, as gay and lesbian parents were more rare in the 80's/90's. I got the shit beat out of me weekly because I had a butch mom - so I learned to keep my head down. The guidence counselors and teachers would tell my bullies that my family, though different, was "okay." It never stopped anything, and it only let more kids in on my family situation.

I do not approve of homosexuals being parents - it's unnatural, ie, it is not found in the wild (bisexual behaviour is, but that's different than strict homosexual behaviour found only in humans). I am not religious, this comes from my life growing up. It has taken a lot of introspect and coming to terms with things to be a well-adjusted adult - and I'm aware of and know several others who are in similar situations.

In school, family situations are best left untouched. There are only so many hours in a school day, and too many of them are being wasted on non-academic subjects as it is. If the topic comes up, defer to the parents and change topics. It's not that hard - adults do this all the time anyway. Just because a child comes from a household that's different, it does not make them special - just different. Move along.

EH 10-31-2008 @ 3:10PM

SKL...sorry if I misread the intention of your post:

"If the gay lobby in certain states didn't insist in pushing things so far beyond what most parents can tolerate, there wouldn't be all this reactionary backlash."

Homosexuality does not seem an issue that parents should be viewing as something to "tolerate" no more then the color of someone's skin or the capability of a woman's brain to vote. They are all normal and should not be treated as something that is violated at the basic of civil rights. Homosexuality may not be the predominant but it is part of nature and people are born this way. It is not a choice as I'm sure most of your gay friends will tell you.

By the argument of this being taught in schools...that is a scare tactic. As this original article points out kids who are gay or have gay parent's are part of our world and in the school system. Our children are confronted with this very real occurrence every day so they are learning about it already. Schools are not trying to teach homosexuality in school. Even if there are a few occurrence's and children hear about it you simply can't TEACH a child to be gay if he / she is heterosexual no more then you can teach a homosexual child to be heterosexual. If that was the case then society's hate and religions teaching of homosexuals are deviant would have already "taught" the homosexuals to be straight.
I have to wonder what all of the nay-sayers on civil right's issues for same sex marriage are afraid of....maybe of their children who don't fit into the perfect mold encountering fearful judgmental people just like themselves!

SKL 10-31-2008 @ 3:47PM

EH, first of all, you should know that Roger has a history of promoting a lot of sex and sex-related education in the schools at younger ages than what most parents believe is appropriate. Most parents don't want their kids to be intolerant of gays, but they believe that introducing homosexuality - and many other of Roger's favorite topics - in schools at an early age would harm more than it helps.

But on your final point. Here on ParentDish, a commenter once wrote that she'd be thrilled to find out her child was gay. My response was that she was either a liar or a visitor from another planet. No parent wants his child to have a higher likelihood of being beaten to death, contracting AIDS, shunned from whatever house of worship he would otherwise choose, forced to live a lie or face discrimination at the workplace and elsewhere, kept away from nieces and nephews, denied certain occupations, possibly denied the opportunity to become parents, etc., etc. Anyone who has ever truly cared for a homosexual person would agree with this. I personally know of some who have died of both AIDS and suicide; not wanting this for my kids does not mean I hate those victims.

People obviously have different views about whether homosexual tendencies are inborn or chosen. My personal view is that they can be either. Here in the Midwest, there are plenty of gay people who spent years, decades, wanting to believe they were not gay, because the gay lifestyle isn't all that "gay" in most US locations. On the other hand, when my younger siblings were in high school, even here, it was "cool" to be gay and some youths were trying it in order to look more cosmopolitan. I assume it didn't stick with most of them. But I believe that if you hang out in an environment where the gay lifestyle is celebrated, you'll see more people choosing the gay lifestyle, even though they would have been quite comfortable with the heterosexual lifestyle. I don't believe that every human is born absolutely gay or absolutely straight. There is a continuum and for many, it's a choice to go one way or the other, or both ways.

Let's get real - in our children's lifetime, most of the world will not be comfortable with homosexuality. Homosexuals will continue to face discrimination and danger until long after my tots have moved on to the next life. Given that, is it not understandable if parents prefer that their kids aren't encouraged to explore homosexual behaviors or lifestyles.

Now back to the treatment in school. I see absolutely no purpose in discussing what is and isn't an OK lifestyle with little kids. The fact is, there will always be some kids who don't fall within the "OK" circle. Who, you say? Well, how about incest victims? Is their family lifestyle OK too? And if not, do we not care about these kids feeling "left out"? So why draw a circle at all - why discuss it at all? Teach the kids how to respect each other in school, regardless of family background. Teach them that their class is the relevant unit in school, and if someone starts in about family background, emphasize that that is totally irrelevant to the classroom. Inform parents of problems such as harrassment, so the parents can have an age-appropriate, child-appropriate discussion with each child. And if you don't trust parents to do this in the right spirit, I assure you that discussing it in class isn't going to fix that problem.

notfooled 10-31-2008 @ 4:31PM

SKL - umless you live in the middle of Biblebelt USA (and even then I'm not so sure...) then yes, probably most kids do have at least one classmate with same sex parents. It is more prevalent than you think.

notfooled 10-31-2008 @ 4:38PM

SKL - you say that in our lifetime, people will not be comfortable with homosexuality. HA - 50 years ago, people thought the same thing about a black Amercian president! But I'll bet a million bucks next Tuesday will prove them all wrong!! Times, they are a-changing!!!

EH 10-31-2008 @ 6:32PM

SLK,

Likening incest to homosexuality and where we draw the line...wow, how to respond to such an inappropriate comparison? The line is drawn on basic human rights and being a civilized society.

School is for education. Those who fear education in schools are afraid of losing the grip of the mold they expect their child to live within. Fortunately, the cat is out of the bag with the internet and the true mixing of cultures by travel and education. Those who still grasp for the controlled, impossible, ultra conservative and narrow minded thought's will not prevail. The fact that Prop 8 in California is such a tie at this point is evidence that times are changing and for the good.

I would not be thrilled to find out my child was gay (as you say someone said) but I would be thrilled to have an open mind and an early indication and acceptance so that I could help my child navigate as early as possible to disregard those that would judge out of ignorance and fear.

Their really is no point arguing this point further as most have these values and compassion, or lack of, strongly instilled. Just as those who fought to continue on the path of racism or against women's rights were slowly defeated, so too will those that today fight the rights of same sex marriage for archaic reasoning.

Your children will see a day where this issue is in the past and they will undoubtedly be ashamed of those around them who chose fear and segregation or basic human rights.

Blacks & whites could not marry until the 1960's...at 40, this is within my lifetime and is a right I cannot imagine being outlawed. Todays children will live in a time that tolerance of the same sex marriage is a reality and an embarrassment to them that their parents tried to ban.

Living in Orange County, CA I am in Republican, anti-gay heaven...and even here Prop 8 is either sides race to win, it's that close. To see so much No on 8 / No on Hate signs here lifts my spirits in the possibilities of the human race to change for the better.

Maybe we can revisit this topic after the election and see what direction our country decides. Until then, I respect your viewpoint...even though it's exactly opposite from mine.

EH 11-03-2008 @ 10:13PM

As election day approaches and is just hours away I am hopeful that Obama will win and Prop 8 fails....so that my child will never now racism or discrimination.