How Obama Changes Everything

The only thing left in Pandora's box was hope.
Now I (we) have hope.
After 8 yrs. of being embarressed by our present Pres., my faith in America's future has been restored. Hail to the Chief.

Um, wrong.

actually, he last 8 years of Republian leadership happened because Democrats could not give us a candidate worth electing to the Presidency. this time around, Republicans did not give us the right candidate. it happens.

I don't really agree with most of Obama's policies and am also tired of the hype. But, I'm willing to give him a chance (unlike most Dems when George Bush was first elected).

What I actually find more frightening than Obama's policies are people like the poster above, hope. These are the truly intolerant people. Ones that feel if you don't agree with them, you should go away and have no voice. These people are so blinded by their self righteousness and hatred of an opposing opinion that they will truly be the ones to bring this country down. This country was founded on opposing opinions, and for its sake, I hope these people never come to power.

Finally, I'd like to ask for an example from hope of Obama "opening up hope" and relevance for people "marginalized by the Republican party". Who has been marginalized? How exactly?

I'd like to respond to your question. There are so many ways Republicans do marginalize people who are unlike them. First, what religion do Republicans promote and want to impose onto everything--courthouses, laws, education, you name it--Christianity. That preference to one religion in effect marginalizes all the others. Next, the comment from one of the first two posters who said that now the "lesbians" and gays will have rights--which is Republican thinking--just turn on Fox News right this moment and you'll find lots of Republican talking heads marginalizing someone--immigrants, educators, gays who want to adopt children, gays who want to marry, etc. etc. Bush invaded Iraq and in effect "marginalized" the whole country by bombing people and killing over 100,000 of them according to Johns Hopkins University, which of course the Republicans then ignored (marginalized) for having the nerve to report the truth. What I think is so amazing is the photos I saw today of Obama's train trip--along the train route you saw real people--poor people, African American people, people of all colors and backgrounds--and these people don't often get included, period. Now they feel that somebody represents THEM, not just the religious right, not just the oil companies, not just the intolerant racists and bigots, which are the Republicans. This is all true; I am just stating facts. If that makes me intolerant, so be it. I am interested in truth, not spin. Have a good evening.

thank you for the response hope. so, in effect, what you're advocating is marginalizing Republicans (or anyone with a different viewpoint)? isn't this exactly what Obama stands against?

As for the Johns Hopkins study, 47 cluster points? Seriously? Even a 2005 survey conducted by news media used 135. rejecting a study because of poor methodology isn't the same as marginalizing it. the truth of the matter on Iraq is, Saddam needed to be taken out immediately. if you have any doubts as the extent of Saddam's horrific deeds, I encourage you to read this article from Archaeology magazine. It's quite eye-opening:
http://www.archaeology.org/0901/etc/iraq.html

you keep pointing to "Republican thinking" and i think you are mistaken. You say "Next the comment from one of the first two posters who said that now "lesbians" and gays will have rights-which is Republican thinking...". 52.3% of Californians voted for Prop 8. There's obviously some Democrats in there.

"not just the intolerant racists and bigots, which are the Republicans". i'm not even sure where to start with this one. you've been duped into thinking that if someone doesn't agree with your views, the only possible reason is racism. personally, i think expansion of welfare is more racist than anything. who advocates for that? Democrats. find me a racist statement made by a Republican and I'll find you 2 made by Democrats. Racism does not depend on your party affiliation.

This is all true. I am just stating facts. I am also interested in the truth and not spin.

I absolutely agree with you about how evil Saddam was. But that is not why Bush got us into Iraq! I don't have to repeat to you what he said about WMDs--everyone knows now that he was wrong. Cheney and Bush have said that it wouldn't have mattered--they wanted to go in there anyway. I think the reasons for that are complicated. I do think Bush wanted to finish the job his father started; I can follow that psychology. There are dictators all over the world; I remember my dad (a conservative) once told me that the Middle East is a "hornet's nest," as he put it, and starting a war there will bring on the last world war we'll ever have. But you are totally right that Saddam Hussein was the most evil dictator--what he did to the Kurds alone meant he should have been taken out by somebody. But as we see, going in to fight a ground war in the cities and towns isn't improving things and might be making them worse. I don't claim to have the answers about that. It's a bad situation either way. Anyway, it is nice to have a debate with an intelligent person who has really thought through these problems. I wish I had better solutions to offer to solve this one.

i think one of the points of what you said is "everyone knows now that he was wrong" is very true. The key word being "now". at the time, a host of other countries believed Saddam had WMDs. after the vicious chemical attacks on the Kurds, I don't see any reason to believe otherwise. ideally, as you point out, Saddam should have been removed long before.

whether or not Iraq ends up being a better place remains to be seen. when you take down the infrastructure of a country, of course things will be worse before they get better. but, personally, i think this will be a good thing in the long run.

anyway, thanks for the discussion and we'll see what the next 4 years wil bring!