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The Perils Of Disciplining In Public
Filed under: Opinions, Behavior: Toddlers & Preschoolers, Behavior: Big Kids
Recent video of a woman from Gaylesville, Georgia dragging her son through a Verizon store has sparked heated online debates about what constitutes appropriate punishment and the challenges of exercising discipline in public.
Melissa Catherine Smith-Means, 37, the mother caught on the store security camera, was arrested for the incident and charged with felony first-degree cruelty to a child. To date, no one is quite sure if she dragged her child because he refused to walk or if she did it with the child's consent as part of a game, as her attorney asserts.
Regardless, parents coast to coast are sounding off on the issue because no matter what side you come out on, the side of the mom, the child, the appalled store employees, or the arresting officer, parents universally relate to the age-old public discipline dilemma. We've all been there, surrounded by strangers, face to face with a naughty, stubborn child and the choice to either give in to his/her demands, or follow through with our disciplinary threat, despite the disapproving stares of onlookers.
Melissa Smith-Means has not publicly clarified the context of the video, presumably because the charges are still pending. I, for one, will reserve judgment until I hear from her directly – for a lot of reasons.
One, as a former reality-TV show participant, I know first-hand that video can be deceptive when taken out of context. Second, as an at-home mom who is on the front lines of discipline with my five kids all day long, I know that a ten-second video clip of my worst mommy moment is not an accurate portrait of who I am as a parent or the kind of loving home I work so hard to build for my children.
To be honest, I've been burned before for not taking the time to walk in another mother's shoes before judging her choice of disciplinary tactics. Readers might recall a column I once wrote about, Bertreice Dixon, a mom who punished her 12 year-old son for bullying and stealing a fellow classmate's iPod. Dixon forced her son, Montavious Lewis, to stand on a busy corner, wearing a hat with the letter "D" for "dumb" and a sandwich board stating what he had done to his classmate. He also carried a bell he was expected to ring so he could attract the attention of cars and pedestrians at the busy intersection where his mother made him stand. And attract attention he did, including a local news camera crew who captured him shuffling back and forth and looking both bored and understandably embarrassed. They even interviewed Montavious, who seemed to me to be holding back tears. I couldn't help but feel for the kid.
In my column, I acknowledged Bertreice's intentions as good, and even loving, but I rejected her choice of discipline, which I called "humiliating" and probably "unproductive". I received more than 700 comments on that column, and virtually all of them disagreed with me and more importantly, challenged me to consider the unique set of problems Bertreice faced raising her son in a gang-prone environment. After reading all the comments, I came to the conclusion that despite my sympathy for Montavious, Bertreice was, indeed, a far better judge than I of what her son would respond to and more importantly, of the dangers she was trying to protect him from. Lesson learned!
Talk to any grandparent these days and they'll tell you that today's kids lack discipline. Talk to anybody older than 35 and they'll tell you that their parents might very well have been reported for "child abuse" by today's time-out, talk-it-out approach to parenting.
It's a good thing that our culture has a greater awareness of child abuse and encourages adults to respect the dignity of children. But is our culture sending parents mixed messages? On the one hand, we decry a near epidemic lack of discipline in children that has eroded manners and self-control once taken for granted in kids a mere generation ago. From grandparents, teachers and even President Obama, there's a cry for parents to take more responsibility for their kids' behavior. On the other hand, when parents do, or rather, when we see them doing it, we are quick to judge.
Child abuse is flat out wrong, but where's the line between abuse and non-traditional forms of punishment that an individual parent deems effective?
For those interested in talking about this topic on TV, Dr. Phil is looking for you. Click here to leave him a comment. I will be appearing on an upcoming Dr. Phil episode to discuss this very controversial issue.
Rachel Campos-Duffy is the author of Stay Home, Stay Happy: 10 Secrets to Loving At-Home Motherhood.
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ReaderComments (Page 1 of 2)
8-26-2009 @ 10:33AM
SKL said...Each state has laws that parents should familiarize themselves with. The "line" is wherever that law is in the particular state. I don't enjoy whacking my kids, least of all in public. But when my kid broke the rule and ran into the parking lot a month ago, she received a public spanking. I know it's legal to spank in my state, so I did not give a hoot who didn't approve of it. My kids are my responsibility.
The dragging incident - while it looked like a game to me, I doubt that I would have done that in public. Anything that is way off the wall is going to draw unwanted attention. As a shopper, I would have felt uncomfortable seeing a child dragged around on the floor, game or not. As a parent, I would not teach my kids that such behavior is acceptable in public. I don't know the facts, but the real lesson here is, keep a low profile. Most people want you to discipline your kids - but bizarre behavior isn't going to be viewed by most as "discipline." And furthermore, our society (consciously or unconsciously, right or wrong) has made it clear that it's more acceptable to be a closet spanker than a public spanker.
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8-26-2009 @ 12:08PM
Kelly said...I recently heard that Day Care workers were told that they shouldn't even put a child in time out because its demeaning toward the child. At this rate parents will have no recourse to discipline their children. I for one have no problem with spanking. I was spanked as a child and I never once was fearful of my parents in any way shape or form. I think its ignorant to assume if a child is spanked they are afraid of their parents. Thats just a bunch of bull****. I also don't think it teaches a child that its ok to hit someone. Because I never heard that it would be ok to hurt others. It didn't have to be beaten into me either. What teaches kids that some behavior is acceptable is actually by not giving them any punishment or not giving them the proper punishment. Punishment should be dependent on the best way that child would learn a lesson and not by some guidelines given by someone who has spent all of 20 minutes in the presence of children. Before someone tells me how to discipline my children I think they should give me their credential on what makes them experts. Because it is more likely its from someone who spends more time in the presents of adults and not children.
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8-26-2009 @ 12:59PM
Melissa said...I was faced with having to discipline my 3 and a half year old in public, at a movie theater of all places. I was in line getting popcorn and had left her with my mom in the theater....well, she took off and my mom wasn't fast enough....she managed to get out of that theater and onto the elevator and down one floor! I heard her, and another woman heard her and was frantic right along with me....so I ran down the stairs and found her and she was laughing! We have a problem with her running off like that, so I (lightly) spanked her....that woman screeeeeeamed at me! She said "she's a little girl! watch your kid, mom!" I was absolutely floored and embarrassed (and hurt that my mom didn't stick up for me and tell her "hey, I was the one that was supposed to watch her!"), but there was nothing I could do but say, "hey we have a problem with this, and she knows the rules, and she knows the consequences as well, so maybe stay out of it." She then informed that her niece was kidnapped four years ago, because the mom wasn't watching her....man, did I feel bad, but what the hell was I supposed to do? Let her get away with running off from Grandma when Grandma told her "come back here" as she was trying to chase her??
People don't understand that children need boundaries and discipline, and sometimes, in extreme cases, that may involve a swat on the behind.
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8-26-2009 @ 2:14PM
Connie Jenkins said...My brother and I were spanked as kids and No, we did not grow up to be abusers of our own children. My kids got a few spankings and all grew up to be normal adults. Kids now are allowed by the government to behave however they want and it shows in the schools. Georgia still has a corporal punishment law but it is seldom used. Maybe if it was the teachers would be able to teach the little demons something useful.
8-26-2009 @ 2:14PM
Connie Jenkins said...I never spanked any of my kids if they misbehaved in public but whispered in their ears: Just wait till I get you home! That was always enough to get them to behave because they knew I meant what I said.
8-26-2009 @ 2:47PM
CLM said...The woman who told you her niece had been kidnapped four days prior was probably lying. I find it highly unlikely that someone with a missing relative would be catching a film.
8-26-2009 @ 3:01PM
isisaquaria said...CLM read "four yrs ago" not days...
As for disciplining, I do not like to spank and it must be a big offense....but the last time I spanked my oldest, she had bit me and wouldnt let go-
Some lady decided to tell me how wrong I was, so I sat my child down with my husband...walked up grabbed the strangers shirt tail and wiped my bloody hand on it---told her thanks and went on. Her husband just died laughing and told her to mind her own business and then proceded to help me get a bandage.
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8-26-2009 @ 8:17PM
ISHTARJMD said...I have no problems with spanking. I encourage it and I know my parents do. I got spanked several times, always when I deserved it. I was never smacked without clearly understanding why. The last one I got was with a wire hanger after my father caught me stealing at the grocery store. He didnt leave welts and I love my father a great deal. I actually take after him more than my mother. It set the lines for me and for my younger sisters not to cross. As a result I am a healthy, happy, creative, confident and intelligent young woman who has carved a stable life and career out for herself with out depending on anyone. If I had dropped down and put my parents in a position to drag me, playful intent or not, I'd have been picked up put back on my feet and told to stand up. A second infraction would, and has, resulted in swats. And I hated getting a swat from my mom more than spanking from my dad. She knew how to swat and leave a sting!
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8-27-2009 @ 12:10PM
Sifrina said...Parents have to make their own discipline decisions (within the law of course). I was spanked as a child occasionally and am not scarred for life from that, but I do question how effective it was (I laughed through the spanking; other kids react in kind by hitting or biting back).
We don't spank, we've never had to, and I'm glad for that. We've been really lucky with our son. The only time our son's behavior really warranted anything near a spanking was when he was hitting others as a toddler, but we determined that hitting him for hitting others just didn't seem to be an appropriate way to get the right message across - hitting hurts and we don't hit! We've found other more effective ways to get through to our son when his behavior is out of line (there are consequences which he feels, but they don't involve aggression) and although I don't know that all families can achieve this, I do wish that for all families and, more importantly, for their children.
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8-27-2009 @ 12:54PM
april said...If I had bit my mother while she spanked me... I can't even imagine what she would have done. I had the good sense to realize that I deserved the punishment for my wrongdoings, and though I did try to run away from the spanking on several occasions, or tried hiding the switches, I never did something extreme like biting or hitting back. In my house, you knew that was just not done and would lead to further punishment. And my child will realize the same, or face further punishment. That's just how it is. And I'm not having my kid walk all over me just because someone else thinks a little spanking is "wrong". If the kid deserves it, that's just that. Mind your own damn business.
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8-28-2009 @ 12:33PM
Sifrina said...This may generate controversy among some of the posters here (who reference "whacking" and "switches" - their words not mine), but below is what the AAP says about spanking in case anyone's interested, particularly on what they believe are the effects and effectiveness of spanking as a form of punishment.
http://www.aap.org/publiced/BR_Discipline.htm
Why spanking is not the best choice
The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that if punishment is needed, alternatives to spanking should be used.
Although most Americans were spanked as children, we now know that it has several important side effects.
It may seem to work at the moment, but it is no more effective in changing behavior than a time-out.
Spanking increases children's aggression and anger instead of teaching responsibility.
Parents may intend to stay calm but often do not, and regret their actions later.
Because most parents do not want to spank, they are less likely to be consistent.
Spanking makes other consequences less effective, such as those used at child care or school. Gradually, even spanking loses its impact.
Spanking can lead to physical struggles and even escalate to the point of harming the child.
Children who continue to be spanked are more likely to be depressed, use alcohol, have more anger, hit their own children, approve of and hit their spouses, and engage in crime and violence as adults.
These results make sense since spanking teaches the child that causing others pain is justified to control them—even with those they love.
If you are having trouble disciplining your child or need more information on alternatives to spanking, talk with your pediatrician.
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8-28-2009 @ 1:20PM
SKL said...That's just not true. They are including abused children in those statistics (assuming they aren't fabricating them outright). I have never seen a study where they compared the results of MODERATE spanking and other discipline techniques - excluding recipients of over-the-line spanking and other abuse from the study.
Moderate spanking does NOT teach children to be violent. I see more problems with violent children who were never spanked. Time out does NOT work as well as spanking for ALL children and all offenses. (I'll allow that it does for some.)
I believe the real motive for government / medical people's advice against spanking is that they think advising people not to spank will reduce child abuse. I believe the same is true of the "modern advice" not to attempt to potty train at the age that used to be normal (because have you noticed how often abuse is triggered by a potty training mishap?). I understand the desire to protect kids from abuse, but I think the logic is misguided. A few moderate spankings at the right time and place will greatly reduce the chance that things ever escalate to the point where "serious" punishment is considered necessary. Also, the thought process that leads to abuse is completely different from that which leads to a decision to administer corporal discipline. The spanking parent's mind is operating exactly the same way as that of a parent who is administering a time out. It's just a different choice of tools. Some may argue that as long as the line between spanking and abuse is not well-defined, spanking should not occur; but to me, it makes more sense to actually learn from effective spanking parents. What is it about most effective parents that keeps them "moderate" about discipline? How does that differ from the way an abusive parent reacts? How can we apply this knowledge to improve the effectiveness of all parents?
One could say time outs shouldn't be done either, because they could lead kids to think they have a right to imprison others and they don't work as well as, say, drugging them. Oh, and they are just a step on the path to locking the kids in the closet for years. I can think of a number of other reasons why time outs are not always the best choice. But I would not argue that parents should not include time-outs in their discipline toolbox, to be used at the right time and place and in the right mindset. Spanking is the same.
Sifrina, based on your earlier post, your experience and those of "other kids" you cite were not typical of kids who were spanked, because the vast majority of us would never dream of hitting back, let alone biting, nor of laughing at our parents. There must have been another dynamic going on in your/their life, separate from the choice to spank.
9-23-2009 @ 2:29PM
REBA said...This is not true. i was spanked whenever I misbehaved. I'm not an alcholic... I'm not a junkie. Neither are my sisters. Sometimes spanking is what it takes to get the point across.
I believe this is what is wrong in America. People are not raising their children right. And they are the ones that will be running our country before too long. Sad day in America when you cannot discipline your own child without fear of someone yelling abuse. There is a clear difference in beating your child and disciplining them. "Spare the rod and spoil the child"...
8-28-2009 @ 1:39PM
Sabrina said...I was spanked as a child, primarily for repeat offenses that affected the health or safety of myself or my younger sister. Most were swats on the butt, occasional taps w/ fingers on the cheek if major back-talk or swear words popped out.
This mind you, was in a household where my parents were physically abusive to each other.
My sister & I both have not turned out violent, and both of us believe in the occasional swats for our children (her 2 my 1).
Sometimes, time out is not working - esp when he keeps getting up, and is nearly as strong as me. There isn't anything I can really take away, as he doesn't have a favorite toy, only a couple of shows which he isn't OMG in WUV with, and few playdates due to my 2-jobs. But realizing he's disappointed me or hurt my feelings has worked wonders.
I have timed-out in public. I have tapped smacked his hand in public. I've also walked out of where we were at, with suitable loss of privileges before.
Mostly - I think others need to keep their nose out of it. A quick smack is one thing; several swats is another (and *could* be a sign of abuse or over-use). But I strongly agree that the *fear* parents have about disciplining their child, and the *fear* schools/day cares have for even using time-outs - are allowing our children to grow up rude & inconsiderate. And I fear for our society down the line.
Anyone know how Europe views smacks on the butt & such these days?
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10-31-2010 @ 9:54AM
JerseyJean said...I will not displine my children in public anymore - with everyone having cell phones today it's too easy for someone to decide you are a bad parent & report you. Now to the parents that feel that because I have a loud voice naturally - Oh sorry you have no way of knowing that - One smack to the rear end & holding my child while talking loudly & looking into his eyes is not abuse. I can't help but wonder "Were you the parent that never hit their child in public but beat the crap out of them at home? or Was it your kid that nobody in the neighborhood could stant because your favorite reply was "not my child" as they were out having sex at 12 or getting drunk & high? or Was you child the one who the first time someone said something mean to them or yelled at they tried a permanent solution to a temp. situation because they were so "well adjust". I aplolgize before hand to anyone around when my child has a breakdown - but from now on I will just let them go until they calm themself down & if they break anything in the store I will not take responsibility because I no longer can.
8-28-2009 @ 3:04PM
Sifrina said...SKL - As I said, parents have to decide for themselves on whether lawful spanking should be considered. I was spanked a handful of times and the one incident I recall, I think I laughed out of nervous embarrassment (as my 5 year old friend watched on). I don't recall much else about my being spanked, though I VIVIDLY remember my mother giving me that "look" that would stop me in my tracks - and how she would turn the car around and take me home if I was at all mouthy on the way to a friend's house (I had to call and explain to my little friend why I wasn't coming over). As I said, no scars or strong reaction to my experience being spanked, but I'm just glad we've been successful in using different tactics w/our son and I think we are very fortunate based on his temperment.
While on vacation this summer, I just saw a mom slap a daughter on the playground and the daughter smacked her right back. I couldn't believe it, but one thing was for certain - the lesson of "self control" clearly wasn't getting through! The biting I referenced was Isisaquaria's experience (above) when she spanked her oldest and gotten bitten to point of shedding blood.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and so is the AAP. If you feel this is the most effective way to discipline your children that's your prerogative. Maybe you could write a parenting book on "Effective Moderate Spanking" if you feel you have useful info to offer other parents. Only 1 question, what do you mean when you say " A few moderate spankings at the right time and place will greatly reduce the chance that things ever escalate to the point where 'serious' punishment is considered necessary." What is that which is more "serious punishment"?
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8-28-2009 @ 4:07PM
SKL said...Sifrina, first of all, I think Isisaquaria was saying she spanked her child BECAUSE the child bit her, not the other way around. I notice that didn't happen again after the spanking - since that was reportedly the child's last spanking.
What I mean by the "more serious punishment" is anything more dramatic than a brief spanking. That would include a more dramatic spanking, but it would also include a significant grounding, loss of a significant privilege, police intervention, etc.
Your revised explanation of your spanking situation illustrates my point. Your mom could give you "the look" and you would know that you'd better stop your nonsense, because she "could" decide to do something you would rather avoid, including a spanking. A parent who is smart about spanking rarely has to resort to it. The knowledge that it is a possibility is an effective deterrent for the average child. Also, your mom was smart enough to choose other punishments when they made more sense - those that most closely reflected the natural consequences of your actions. Good for her! But if your mom had declared that she would never touch a hair on your little head, your behavior would have reflected that.
I think it's wonderful that you have a child who can be successfully disciplined without spanking. I have certainly known such children. Unfortunately, they are in the minority.
8-28-2009 @ 10:34PM
Sifrina said...SKL - If Isisaquaria spanked the final spank because she was bitten, then I stand corrected. My mother never spanked me, only my father, about 2 or 3 times when I was little. My mother never said she'd spank me either and my father never implied that my mother would spank me. I'm not saying this is good or bad, or that my father spanked "effectively," but just that this is what it was. All I know is that losing privileges left an impression more than anything, at least for me. You can desperately try to read whatever you want into other people's lives to justify your child-rearing method but you can only figure out what is right for your family.
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8-29-2009 @ 12:16AM
SKL said...I don't try to tell other families what discipline methods to use. I reacted to your post because it suggested parents who spank are wrong to spank. I am thoroughly tired of the attitude that anyone thinks they know better what legal discipline method is right or wrong for others whom they don't even know.
I acknowledge that you stated that parents have to figure this out for themselves. However, the fact that you went on to post anti-spanking rhetoric means you really think parents who spank are out of line. You expected that some here would disagree. Now don't twist this into me trying to tell you to spank your child.
8-29-2009 @ 5:22PM
mommiedear said...I discipline my child in public. I am a truly believer that if my daughter is doing something wrong that I shoudl correct it as it happens not after the fact. In most cases i is a verbal discipline but sometimes if she runs off with out me when I have told her not to she will have to sit in her stroller for the remainder of the time or hold my hand etc. Nothing extreme like dragging the kid when he refuses to walk that is cruel and extreme. Whether hs asked for it or not...use your common sense! The floor is nasty in a retail floor! The kid could hurt himself there could be sharp objects on the ground...so many variations. Just because your tot asks for something doesnt mean you immediately consent. Whose the parent here! Obviously being an adult means making sensible choices. www.truuconfessions.com moms have confessed to not so sensible choices but most agree with the line being drawn with cruelty and discipline.
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