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John And Jack: Can Sibling Names Be Too Close?
Filed under: Baby Names
Dear Name Lady:
I have a 2-year-old son named John. We just found out that we're expecting another boy, and my husband and I really want to name him Jack. I come from the generation where Jack is Jack and John is John, but others see them as one and the same. Your thoughts?
- J
The idea that Jack is "short" for John may seem odd on the face of it. The names are the same length and have only one sound in common. In this century they're both standalone names, high on the charts. But for hundreds and hundreds of years, almost every Jack was actually christened John.What's the connection? One theory is that Jack is a shortened form of Jahnkin. ("Kin" was once a popular suffix for a pet name -- picture Harry Potter's Aunt Petunia fussing over her son Dudley as "Diddykins.") However it happened, the association between Jack and John is too old and deep to disappear in a single generation. Attractive as you may find them, I don't recommend using both in the same family.
Let's look at it from the perspective of a young Jack who has an older brother named John. For Jack, it seems an awful lot like he was named for his big brother. The origin of Jack as an offshoot of John takes away from Jack's individuality. It reinforces the idea that his identity is John's little brother, and seems to beg for comparisons between the two boys.
From John's perspective, it's a matter of territorial rights. One of the pleasures of a traditional name is the variety of well-established nicknames. You can try on different facets of identity by being Elizabeth or Charles at work, Liz or Chuck in the band, and Betsy or Charlie at home without anyone batting an eye. The nicknames are all traditional but all have different styles, and each highlights different elements of your personality.
Consider one of the most prominent John/Jacks of the past century, John Fitzgerald Kennedy. John is an eminently trustworthy name for an office holder. It suggests steadiness, trustworthiness and strength. But Jack has a cheery mischievousness and rakish charm (think Jack Kerouac, Jack Nicholson, Jack Black). John F. Kennedy may have been the president, but Jack Kennedy was the charismatic, Camelot figure.
The option of Jack as a nickname is usually a birthright of those named John. Giving it to a second son deprives your John of that optional alter-ego. A different choice would give both boys a little more room to carve out their own name identities.
How did you choose sibling names? Share your experiences! And if you have your own question to Ask the Name Lady, drop her a line!
Related: Creative Baby Names
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ReaderComments (Page 1 of 1)
11-05-2009 @ 2:21PM
Barbie said...Goodness! With all the names out there I can't believe a parent would be torn about having a John and a Jack in hte same family. Pick another name. Besides Jack sounds like a dogs name. Just my opinion!
Reply
11-05-2009 @ 2:35PM
melissa said...What is wrong with you people?! It is not 1800 John and Jack are two separate names. I have never heard of Jack being a nickname for John. I think you should name your children whatever you wish and on the scale of things (apple, cocoa, pilot inspektor, etc) this is so not even close to the realm of name no-no's.
I suggest if you are that concerned you name him Jackson, then "jack" is short for/nickname for Jackson.
Reply
11-05-2009 @ 8:07PM
Elizabeth said...You may not have heard of it, but it's true. I know lots of John's who were called Jack (JFK was one of them). It has nothing to do with being old-fashioned, but it's a tradition, like having a tree at Christmas. Now, it's true, they are different names, but it's like giving one kid the full name, and one the nickname, ie Richard and Ricky, or Margaret and Peggy (because Peggy is a nickname for Margaret, which, since you didn't know Jack was a nickname for John, I'll bet you didn't know, not trying to be mean, just saying). And, if you'll notice, the person who wrote this article is THE NAME LADY. Um, hello, she's supposed to be into names. It's kind of her job.
11-05-2009 @ 3:50PM
Natalie said...Umm... whoever wrote this article is reading WAY too much into it. melissa, I completely agree with you. They should name their kid whatever they want. I come from a family where my siblings and I all had matching names (Nicholas, Natalie, Nathan, and Nicole), and it was never a problem. My brother older brother and sister both went by Nick, because Nicole is just the feminine form of Nicholas. Jack and John are SIMILAR names, not he same. And all of that stuff about "taking away from Jack's identity"? Total BS.
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11-05-2009 @ 5:59PM
kateheart said...I agree a first-born John gets squatters rights on Jack for when he wants to exude rakish charm. Also, names that all start with the same letter kind of remind me of "18 and counting". Baby brother deserves a fresh name and different initials.
Natalie- Did you ever wonder why President Kennedy was referred to as both John and Jack?
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11-05-2009 @ 6:29PM
coolteamblt said...I think TNL hit it on the head. They are way too close, and just not working for me. It's like naming two daughters Katherine and Katie.
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11-22-2009 @ 2:43PM
mommiedear said...I think with all the names out there it should be plain jane like jack and Jill.....I think parents can do better! On www.truuconfessions.com trru-ites agree...!
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11-05-2009 @ 10:46PM
PLN said...I am in agreement with the author of the article. Just a suggestion but how about Jake normally coming from Jacob but not always. It's close but not a direct and very, very traditional nickname for John like Jack is.
Reply
11-06-2009 @ 1:46AM
ADOA said...Why not name the second son Jackson, and call him Jack if you're so concerned with John and Jack being the same??
My cousin named his three boys unusual names based on meaning alone, two of them have some meaning like hunter, hunting, or killing and the third one means claw ... Talon,Chase and Hunter.
The article was terrific, very informative.
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11-06-2009 @ 11:45AM
Kate said...You should name your child what you want but just be prepared for all the endless comments you'll hear like "Isn't Jack a nickname for John?" or "Why do they have the same name?". Trust me it will get old and annoying. I like traditional full names. Children become adults and sometimes what is cute for a child, like some of these less formal and "made up" names are going to sound ridiculus when they are middle aged. Sad but true you are judged by a lot of superficial things including your name.
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11-06-2009 @ 1:04PM
isisaquaria said...I guess you can take the chance....
I think both boys will face something---either your name is too unique --too common plain or interesting it matters little because you cannot ask the child with the burden of the name what they would prefer....
Reply
11-06-2009 @ 10:57PM
Lori said...Don't worry about what anyone else thinks...name your children what you and your husband want. That is really all that matters.
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11-07-2009 @ 9:16AM
Steph said...I think the one thing that wasnt mentioned in this article is just that it may in some (very few) cases, cause confusion. There are still Jack's out there whose real name is John. Some people may assume that Jack's name is John also, and since there is a John in your family with the same last name, (who are both children, as opposed to John and John Jr.) that could cause some confusion. But hey, George Foreman's children are all named George- if they can figure it out- why couldnt you!?! If you have your heart set on Jack, then no other name is going to be right for you.
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11-09-2009 @ 3:58PM
Haley said...My son is a John, named after his father and Grandfather, but we call him Jack
a.) to differentiate between him and his father.
b.) to honor his great grandfather on my side.
I think this happened to work out as a great compromise for me and my family.
Reply
11-13-2009 @ 10:34PM
cholee said...i love the comment about George Foreman. I agree if he can name All five of his sons George Edward ( which is his middle name also) and two of his five daughters are also called George and they have figured out a way then John and Jack should be way easier :)
Reply
12-02-2009 @ 1:29AM
Amanda said...People are mentioned George Foreman, keep in mind that his children are not named George... they are George Junior, George III, George IV, and George V... the roman numerals ARE part of their given birth certificate names and his daughters are not George either, they are Fredda George and Georgetta. So, using that logic, this woman should name her second son John II and call him Jack. I say avoid using nicknames for older childrens' names as names for siblings. Perfect example, I would NEVER name my first daughter Melissa and my second daughter Liz as Liz can be a nickname for Elizabeth OR Melissa. I would also be very resentful of my mother if she had another daughter and named her Amy as I am Amanda and Amy is an accepted nickname for Amanda. While I'd never use it, I'm sure as a child I'd kind of be ticked off that my little sister had my name.
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2-04-2010 @ 6:56PM
JessLittleMomma said...Jack and John are ridiculous as siblings. Why not John and Jackson as someone has suggested. I would never name my sons John and Jack. It would be like me calling my sons Thomas and Tom or Chris and Christopher. With all the names out there choose something else and not so closely related.
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1-16-2010 @ 5:59PM
Somhair said...Call your kids whatever you want
I know to johns, one of whom goes by jack, but that was becaus ethere were four johns in their class at school they are in their 30s now and still go by John Paul Jack and James
If name your son Jack and give him a middle name that if Jack and John becomes a problem, you can use it instead.
My sister freaked out like this when she had her first daughter. My nephew is called Aaron and she wanted to call her baby girl Aoife but thought people would just think she had opened the first page of the name book or something... but because Aoife doesn't sound like it begins with A (ee fa) it was fine. i think aaron and aoife sound great together. now we're trying to think of names for a third baby ('What about Andrew?' 'No it begins with A') and had just settled on rorai when my aunt took it so its back to the drawing board...
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3-20-2010 @ 10:09AM
Zephy said...What I've noticed about names is that some people only care about the way they sound and some people care about the meaning and history of the name also. In this case, the "sound" people think John and Jack are 2 different names because they sound different. The "history and meaning" people think John and Jack are the same name because historically one is the nickname for the other.
I am a "history and meaning" person, though I always preach tolerance around names. Each side can learn something from the other. But in this case, the "sound" people should at least be aware that for many people these 2 names are the same and confusion might result. Even though the 2 names sound different, they are linked by history. And it sounds like the link is still alive today, given many of the comments.
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11-01-2010 @ 12:20PM
mammaT said...Well I say use them both...sorry..I know a family..four boys..named john, jim, jack and jeff..they are now all in their 50's and I don't think any of them are worse off for it. :)
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