I think it's great. There are just as many great dads as there are great mothers. However, it is definately a case by case judgement because there are just as many dead beat dads as there are dead beat mothers.

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Dave,
There was an academic research paper cited over at Glenn Sacks' last year showing that the % of non-paying (i.e. "dead beat") non-custodial mothers was twice that of non-custodial fathers. Even though the aggregate number for such fathers was higher (because many more non-custodial fathers than mothers overall), they had a much better c/s payment compliance rate on a % basis.

It could be that the very same factors that cause a woman to become non-custodial in the first place (drug-use, etc) may be the common root cause, but I just wanted to mention it as a small correction to your last statement as a % basis.

Puma

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"What do [I] think? Is this a raw deal for mothers? Or is it justice for fathers who have been historically denied the chance to raise their children?" In my opinion, this entire movement is indicative of the moral decline of a great, yet, increasingly arrogant nation that refuses to be corrected - as it is written - "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil...", Isaiah 5:20.

In this case, said change appears to be predicated on the abolishment of a policy known as the "tender years doctrine", rather than what's best for minor children when, in fact, it has already been determined - preordained - that women are innately geared to care for and nuture children; which was never intended to be a strike against fathers, except, with time, the roles of both men and women have been so distorted that men no longer want to be men and women think they can do better at it. Quite frankly, I am offended by it all.

First of all, I am content in being a help mate, in whatever form that becomes necessary; whether in my own household or in the workforce. Yet, by no means, do I think I can ever replace the significance of a father in the lives of a child and would not imagine that a man could fulfill my place as a mother in the heart of one of these little ones. Moreover, I would not expect "preferential consideration", only what makes sense - under the circumstances - for the care and custody of minor children, in which case, the "tender years doctrine" appears to be more appropriate than this current undertaking. Even so, there are (clearly) exceptions to any rule and the best interest of children should always take precedence.

Unfortunately, however, the courts have gone from considering what's best for our children to incorporating policy, which has not only become the basis for war, but a tool by which even our children have slowly become synonomous with property obtained - at the judge's discretion -rather than the precious gift that they are. The question is: What next? First we warn our children to be careful of strangers; then, we turn them over to a stranger's discretion - for what? - to (at some point) be auctioned off to the highest bidder? with no chance of correction?

That's my experience!

Yet, let it not be taken lightly:

2 Peter 2:21-22 (New International Version)

21) It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
22 ) Of them the proverbs are true: "A dog returns to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud."

Let it not be so of America; that this great country should decline, falling backwards, rather than move forward as a beacon of light to the rest of the world. For, certainly, there are still those willing to stand up for and uphold the principles embarked upon by our founding fathers whom recognized, but were not privi to perfect, the potential of incorporating proverbs of wisdom.

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It's only great when great people do great things. However, it only takes one moron - with the discretion of a judge - to destroy a multitude of lives.

I for one, agree that there are really great dads and moms and sometimes there are even better dads than moms, but when there is a question there should be an avenue for correction.

At this point, there appears to be none. Once a moron judge makes a decision there are so many more moron judges bent on upholding their own authority, even at the cost of a child's life, rather than consider that some moron made a decision, perhaps, based on something other than the best interest of our children - like politics or favoritism or discrimination - either way, if good parents knew what I've experienced they'd never place their childrens lives in the hands of such strangers.

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Put it to rest. If you do not want the courts and atty's to decide this battle , do it yourself.
It is better for the child if mom and dad can reach a decision together. No one but the parents realy know what is best for the child.
My son's father and I were able to agree on joint. He had joint physical and I had joint leagle. No chiuld support people. When he was with me I payed and kept insurance on him and when he was with his father the same. We didn't play he did, you did. It was a we did what all parents are sapoused to do raise a child and take care of the needs of that child. He is now well balanced and has a family of his own. I am a proud Grandmother of four.
If you can't do something like this and take care of your responsabilty than you never should have had a child to begin with.

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Christa-
I agree it would be great if parents could work out their differences & have a positive relationship for the good of the child, but the scenario you described is the exception ~ not the norm. My son & I are both better off without his dad in our lives. He had over a year & a half to prove himself as a father & failed miserably. Leaving that so and so was one of the best (and toughest) decisions of my life thus far. I am seeking full legal & physical custody. If he wants visitation, it will be court supervised. I see these restrictions as also part of being 'responsible'. To tell me "you should never have had a child to begin with" is insulting & I resent your judgment of me and others in similar situations. How dare you suggest my child should not exist because his father & I don't get along!
I am providing healthy positive male role models for my son so he won't be warped as an adult. Unfortunately his father doesn't fit that bill, and therrefore must be sharply restricted, if not eliminated, from his life. The ONLY mistake made here was marrying his father, not the existence of my child.

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The Divorce Judicial system is a Farce. It's all about the lawyers making money. The Judge is nothing but a glorified lawyer. The Judge say it's all about the kids, that couldn't be further than the truth. It's about the lawyers making money. When I was going through my divorce an acquaintence of mine who went through it told me what was going to happen in detail and sure enough that's exactly whathappened right to the day. The guy gets F*&^(D every step of the way. The system actually contributes to the hatred the man has for the women afterwards. Giving them half of everything and allowing them to keep the house isn't good enough. They make you live on 2/5's of your money and give the rest the woman even if she is declared an alcoholic. I have spoken to many men who have gone through this antiquated and biased process and thay all have been screwed. DIVORCE LAWYERS ARE ALL SCUM ALONG WITH THE JUDGES(GLORIFIED LAWYERS)WHO ARE ALL IN CA-HOOTS WITH ONE ANOTHER. They are in it to bleed the clients dry and they don't give two hoots about the children.

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I don't believe that mothers are always the right parent to raise a child. True, they do have prenatal attachment but that does not necessarily a mother make. Case in point: How many times have we seen in the news extreme cases of abuse and even murder of the children by their mothers? What about mothers who may be drug or alcohol addicted? Are they the proper parent for the children because of prenatal attachment? It is true that a mother who really is a mother and not by title only may be the best one for day to day child raising due to the inherent mother instincts she has. But a child also needs the proper guidance of a father to. That was god's arrangement although so many don't view it that way anymore. Sometimes the father is the best one to raise the children. For instance: I went thru a divorce several years ago when the system did not care who used drugs or abused alcohol. The mother was the choice. I had never used drugs and was not an alcohol abuser. Not only was my ex doing all of those things, she was also making a big name for herself as a runaround sue. She had major problems. Even with witnesses on my behalf she winds up with my infant daughter and I got almost no visitation. The result was my daughter had constant problems in school, became a drug user and wound up in drug rehab by the time she was 16. I remarried nearly a year after my breakup with my ex. We had 2 children, a boy and a girl and neither one of them does or ever has used drugs nor do they abuse alcohol. Maybe the reason for that was because both their mother who is a very fine woman and I set a good example for them. I could have set the same example for my first child but the court evidently thought she would do better learning life from mom. How would God feel about mothers like that? Well back in pre-christian times they could have been stoned to death. Today they get more government money to support their horrific habits while the children suffer. Fathers can be the same so I am not saying fathers should win custody all the time but better screening to find out who really is best parent should be done. Little wonder we have so many disrespectful, suicidal, and crime minded kids these days. The adults are the backbone creating them by the lack of a good family environment and due to such nonsense as not being able to administer the proper discipline fearing child abuse charges. "Spare the rod, spoil the child," said our creator. But so called child psychologist’s seem to think they are more intelligent than the one who originated the family arrangement. The parent best suited and qualified should be the custodial parent and if both are in good position for that they should share custody.

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I have a Great-Grandaughter who will be 3 in Feb. Her and the baby's Dad was never Married. He was convicted in 2002 for Statutory Rape was was given a trial by Diversion so he was placed on Probation for 2 years unsupervised and paid 25.00 a month. He is not on the sex offenders list because it was his first offence .but anyway .He is married now and has 1 boy by her and don't work his wife does. he lost his job over drugs but my Grandaughter went to court and they gave him and her joint custody he don't pay any child support . That baby is passed around like a old rag back and forth and every since she was borned she cries every time she has to go with him . I love her with all my Heart . and she begs me please nanny let me stay here . but my Granddaughter said she has to go or she will go to jail . I don't see how anybody that loves their child would make them go when they beg to stay . she also said her head hurts alot but he said she is to young to know what a headache is . I hope there are better judges else where than here in TN

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MY BOYFRIEND IS GOING THROUGH THIS RIGHT NOW AND HE WANTS TO KNOW IF IT IS HARD TO GET CUSTODY FROM THE MOTHER OF HIS TWO KIDS BECAUSE SHE IS DATING ANOTHER FEMALE

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I think many dads are capable and willing to help care for their children and should be afforded the opportunity- dads should have the opportunity to chase toddlers, change diapers, listen to screaming tantrums, clean up messes, take crap from snotty teenagers- all the joys moms have had for years. Sending a little cash every month does not equal parenting.

However, the father's rights movement has given way to abusive men getting rights they should not get in the name of co-parenting. Think it's a joke? Think only a bad mom could lose custody to an abusive man? Think again. It has happened to me personally. My ex-husband was convicted of two FELONY DWI's in the past year and attempted suicide (this on top of his long laundry list of violent and criminal behavior), but because he charmed our 11 year old daughter with unrealistic promises she told the court she would rather live with him than with mom who is "strict and boring". The outcome: we get "joint" custody- she lives with dad for school and I get to pay the drunk jerk a sizeable sum (he has no DL and can't get or keep a job).

These outcomes will ultimately deter women in abusive situations from leaving- leave and lose your kids? Leave and pay the man who beat the crap out of you for years 1/3 of your income? Maybe better to stay and make the best of it.

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my parents have spilt coustody over me and my sister and it works great. my mom gets on school nights because we go to school from her house. my dad gets us evry other weekend. over the summer it's weird but once you know how it works, it great. Ex. sat=dad,sun=dad,mon=mom,tues=mom,wed=dad,thurs=dad,fri=mom,sat=mom,sun=mom,mon=dad,tues=dad and so on. but tht only works for the summer cause like i said before, we go to school at our moms house. for specail occaisons, dance recital, chorus/band concerts, school plays/talent shows, they both show up as much as possible, no matter who's night it is! And for holidays it's the same. our parents try very hard to make it so we see both of them on holidays ( christmas, easter even our birthdays) And if it their birhtday but not their night, they usally fond a way to switch, or at least get us to be able to see them. I wish all divorced parents could make something like this happen, but i relize must divorced parnets don't get along well enough to help themselves, and gain as much time with their children as possible. snd there is also cases were one parents is not mentally or physically healthy enough to raise another human being. Please keep in mind in only 12, so my spelling is not perfect =D

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